dsgrue3 said:
| timmah said:
You're either not reading my statements, or you don't have the ability to leave a constrained perception of reality for the sake of discussion. Of course time and our perception of it is relevant to how we undestand these things, that's the entire point I'm making. Keep in mind that 'determined' requires an active role, 'known' is passive, the two are different things entirely. If you were (theoretically) to time travel into the future and observe future events, that does not by definition nullify the choices that built that observed future, nor does it nullify the decisions of the individuals inside this theoretical observed future. Also, if you were to travel back to your 'present' and refrain from influencing the future, would your knowledge of these theoretical future events nullify or make pointless any of the choices made in this future based simply of your pre-knowledge of these events? From a perspective inside time, your arguments make perfect, logical sense. If you attempt to step outside a linear view of time and allow your mind to get out of the box a little bit, it's actually a pretty cool theoretical discussion.
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I gotcha. You don't like the word predetermined. Let's instead use preknown. Your comparison of time travel isn't valid. God isn't time traveling, he knows all always, time can be thrown out entirely. This is completely different from you not knowing your own choices until you travel through time to discover them.
You don't really have a case here, timmah. You're suggesting god doesn't know times associated with events, this would nullify the notion of omniscience.
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Why would he not know time associated with events? From our perspective, we're outside of 'past' time, and we can represent that with a timeline. We can see all of the past events on the timeline. If God were outside of time, and sees past/preset/future (by our definition) as a timeline, he would certainly know the times associated with events, though he would not be constraind by the 'flow' of time as we observe it from within the 'river'.
