dsgrue3 said:
Are you even reading my responses? This is the third time I'm saying this now: time is not relevant. There are a cluster of events with their known outcomes, order isn't relevant. Time isn't relevant. Predeterminism Preknowledge, it's the same damn thing. Determined prior to the event itself, and as everything is known prior to the Universe, all events and outcomes are already known. You're basically arguing that God isn't omniscient, which is what I'm getting at. You're saying the way he sees events is different because it doesn't include time, but you're retarding God by saying that and neglecting to address the fact that even time independent, God would be able to associate outcomes with choices. Edit: @Spurge, Oh you! |
You're either not reading my statements, or you don't have the ability to leave a constrained perception of reality for the sake of discussion. Of course time and our perception of it is relevant to how we undestand these things, that's the entire point I'm making. Keep in mind that 'determined' requires an active role, 'known' is passive, the two are different things entirely. If you were (theoretically) to time travel into the future and observe future events, that does not by definition nullify the choices that built that observed future, nor does it nullify the decisions of the individuals inside this theoretical observed future. Also, if you were to travel back to your 'present' and refrain from influencing the future, would your knowledge of these theoretical future events nullify or make pointless any of the choices made in this future based simply of your pre-knowledge of these events? From a perspective inside time, your arguments make perfect, logical sense. If you attempt to step outside a linear view of time and allow your mind to get out of the box a little bit, it's actually a pretty cool theoretical discussion.