Jay520 said:
1. You didn't argue my point. You agreed that a creator would be as powerful as our universe and powerful enough to create everything that exists in our universe. But where's the logic in assuming it can create everything, including things that don't exist in our universe? 2. Please make the distinction between "every single tiny thing" and "all knowledge." Give some examples because I don't know where you draw the line between the two. Also, if this being didn't know "every single tiny thing" wouldn't it not be all-knowing? Well, I guess that depends on your definition of all-knowing. As for your archichect analogy, I wouldn't be so sure. Yeah he would know everything about the building initially. But after creating it, it's likely that he wouldn't keep up without all the changes of the building unless he constantly observed the building (which we have no reason to believe he does. Perhaps he went to focus on new buildings). And this is without considering free will I f this architect threw in a bunch of beings with free will to do whatever they wanted without interference, it seems likely he wouldn't always know what was going on in his building. 3. Is this based on religion? Where's the logic that associates the creator with a father, especially a loving father? 4. Sure, a 3D being would be able to see more than the 2D being, but there's no reason to believe it would be able to interact with the entirety of the 2D being's reality. It would be able to interact with multiple places in the 2D being's reality, but why would it be able to interact with all of it? 5. That's unfortunate. 6. Why do you believe there is a plan for our species? |
1. I said 'at least' as powerful as the universe which He created. Our ability to describe Him can only go so far. My point is we use our limited intellect and frame of reference to describe something that is so outside the realm of our own understanding as to be indescribable and unknowable in scope and magnitude as related to our finite understanding. The term 'all powerful' is a term that is based upon a frame of reference. Any aspects of this beyond our own space/time limits is purely theoretical or religious. If you look at various religious texts, there are intra-dimensional beings described as having been created by the creator, so in a religious/faith discussion we can argue that the Creator can and has created things outside the constraints and laws of the universe. In a discussion outside of religion/faith, this is of course unprovable and unknowable.
2. Does 'all knowing' mean having all Wisdom, or knowing every single thing that is happening at any given moment? This is a very long and deep discussion with many theories and doctrines. If you were to design and create a computer system and know how every single circuit and line of code works, then give that computer system to a friend, you would have 'all knowledge' about that computer, but not necessarily know at every moment what your friend is doing on that computer. On the other hand, you could design the system to report back to you every single aspect of it's use, so could also theoretically make a way to know everything about both the computer's functions, and the way it is being used. There are multiple beliefs on this subject and I'm not really sure where I fall on this one to be honest.
3. This is largely based off faith, Some faiths see God as a tyrranical ruler that requires strict obedience or wants us killed, some faiths believe He is a loving creator that decided to give us a way to better ourselves and find forgiveness. (Taken from my post below): "If (the sake of this discussion) you accept the axiom that humanity was created, then consider the idea that we are created 'in the image' of the creator, you would only need to then understand the love a father or mother has for their newly born child." Christians also make the argument that He loved humanity so much that He actually came down as a man, but without accepting that...
4. If He is not only outside of space as we define it, but also outside of time, He could in theory interact with any person/situation at any time, therefore having the ability to be everywhere at once. Since our only frame of reference is from inside time, this theoretical concept is difficult to describe. We are obviously constrained to time, so how could we even imagine what it would mean to be outside time? We know there are wavelengths of light (and therefore theoretical colors) that we can't see, but try for a second to imagine a color you've never seen. Based on your frame of reference, those colors cannot be imagined.
5. I guess one non-religious argument that could be made for a single creator would be the in the harmony of physical laws and the similarities seen in the building blocks of life (amino acids, DNA, RNA, etc.). The harmony of all aspects of creation would point to a single designer if we assume the universe was designed/created.
6. That's based on faith and would tie back to the end of what I said in point 3.
