If you are against gay marriage, explain why without mentioning religion

[Michael-5]

Tom3k said:

 

Unbelievable... You obviously can't grasp the fact that homosexuals are as viable to reproduce as any other human being and that they as fact reproduce. Not just within human population, just to make things clear. "Gay" animals reproduce as well. What mechanism? It's obviously that homosexuals aren't going to reproduce with each other... Motivation? As long as society looks on homosexuality in same way as you do, many of homosexuals will have a damn good MOTIVATION to stay in their tiny little closets, with fake lives and reproduce. And what you seriously think that poeple simply because they are gay don't want to have offspring?

Actually as recent studies have shown that "sexually antagonistic" epi-marks, sometimes carryover across generations and cause homosexuality in opposite-sex offspring.

"First of all errors in DNA replication are repairable" And you think I need to insult you? You do that just fine on your own... NOT ALL errors are repaired. What do you think how evolution works?  You think that DNA Polymerase is flawless, or that DNA repairs are foolproof? Get real...

I claim? Read the things you write. Because you obviously don't read those that I write. You CLAIM that reason for homosexuality is a "random mutation" obviously of genom since it can't be of anything else. Since 5% of population is gay wouldn't it be logical that this "random" (whatever that means) mutations should be OBSERVED among all homosexuals? 5% of population is a huge chuck and those so called "random mutations" should be observed if they happened. I have a bit problem with "random" though... Because this is kinda untrue... Since we assume that all mutations in genom occur with equal probability. Which is btw plain wrong, since we know that some occur more than others because they are "favored" by low-level biochemical reactions.

I for one don't claim that things you attach with me... On other hand you do. Everytime you use "term" random mutations, you claim the existence of gay genes. Or do you really think that if 5% of population is gay, they all have "different" muations? Whish is btw surreal... But also following your logic, if reason behind being gay are those yours random mutations, than being gay would be inheritable. Since each time a gay person would reproduce (which once again they do) would pass on his "genetic mutation".

LOL I understand homosexuals can physically reproduce, but unless penis goes in vagina, no baby. If you're homosexual, fitness is reduced because homosexuals have sex with people of the same gender.

You're arguing that the fitness, the reproductive ability, of homosexuals is the same as heterosexuals. It's not, even if they performed heterosexual acts, they don't have any sex drive towards members of the oposite gender. So any reproduction will be forced, and it should be obvious that if penis isn't going into vagina anywhere nearly as frequently as it would in a heterosexual population, then the fitness of that population will be less.

Do you understand that if penis does not enter vagina then no baby is born? Do I need to explain to you why homosexuals either have no, or very minimal heterosexual encounters which could result in reproductive success? Do you now understand how homosexuals have a lower fitness then other populations, or do you still believe that gay people are just as likely to reproduce as children?

If you say you aren't arguing that homosexuals aren't as likely to reproduce, then

a) You have been clearly ignoring my arguement because fitness is the measure of reproductive success, and you have been arguing with me that homosexual behaviour does not prevent reproduction. Homosexuallity damages the fitness and it prevents people from repriducing had they been having heterosexual intercourse instead.

b) You didn't read my original point before you began to insult and critisize me. My original statement was "However from a genetics point of view, homosexuality is disfunctional. There is no arguement here, people are designed to reproduce sexually, if we were designed to be homosexuals, we would all have some sort of hermaphedite system in us." - People are designed to reproduce heterosexually. If we were designed to reproduce homosexually, then there would exist a mechanism to reproduce from same sex interations (I proposed hermaphedite sex organs)

c) You're silly

d) All of the above.

You: "First of all errors in DNA replication are repairable" And you think I need to insult you?

Tell me how Genetic Modification works then please. Tell me how advances in treatment of autistic and down syndrome children have happened without genetic modification. Is the goal not to fix these broken genes? I'm sorry, I just don't understand how genetic modification works without modifying genes. Please explain this to me.

-5% the population isn't gay, it's closer to 1%. Toronto has the highest % of Gay individuals in orth America, and we're at 3%.
You claimed 5% the population is gay, not me. I'm just calling you out on what you claim.

-Random: The Oxford English Dictionary defines "random" as "Having no definite aim or purpose; not sent or guided in a particular direction; made, done, occurring, etc., without method or conscious choice; haphazard." This concept of randomness suggests a non-order or non-coherence in a sequence of symbols or steps, such that there is no intelligible pattern or combination.

Thes mutations do not pick and choose which population is gay, they occur randomly in the population, affecting anyone under the correct circumstances.

You: But also following your logic, if reason behind being gay are those yours random mutations, than being gay would be inheritable.

I specifically explained how random mutations would not be inheritable. You even insulted me for it when I explained to you the difference between a random mutation and a heritable gene. There is no gay gene, and I never claimed their was. I always mentioned that homosexuality was due to a random mutation, either in DNA replication, during pregnancy, or during some other biological event.

However I'll explain it to you again. There is no gay gene, you cannot inherit homosexuality. However if a mutation occurs to the individual at some point during development then the homosexuality disorder may develop. Genes do not develop, you cannot alter your genes once they have been copied. Errors in DNA replication are not heritable. Do you understand logic?



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