Are you Democrat or Republican?? Take the Quiz.

[Michael-5]

kaneada said:

Michael-5 said:

A. In Canada it's 40%, I assumed it was the same in the USA. My bad, but hey, this is probably a big reason why the US homicide rate is that much higher in the USA then Canada.

B. Hand guns have a use for self protection? Against what other hand gun users? You can fit a Rifle in a car NP, and a Rifle is more intimidating for defence in the home.

C. Where do I argue hand guns being more dangerous then assault rifles? I correlated them because hand guns are the next one down due to their small size and conceilability. Yes Rifles are concealable, but it's more difficult to have one hidden and available for immediate use, and it's much harder to run with one in your pants, or down your back. With that in mind, it's much harder to surprise people, and rob a store, or shoot someone.

D. Gun owners in Toronto would be detrimental to society since very few people carry a weapon. I don't even think it's legal here, and I've never seen someone other then a cop carry a gun before, at least in Canada. In the states it's probably different because people are so desensitized to guns, but low crime rates due to intimidation over preventive means is not the way to go IMO.

E. No it won't, Alcohol is heavily prohibited here, we went through the same prohibition you did (except it was much shorter here), and were fine. The second amendment is so old, the fact that people hide behind that still is amazing. Yes you have the freedom to carry a gun, but others should be free to roam town without the fear of being shot. In the states people of minorities and gays are heavily oppressed, I'm sure many of them don't feel comfortable with groups of white people carrying handguns, loaded.

However I agree about taking guns away, a lot of people, people like you and others from the south, would heavily oppose it. I severly doubt you'll see people shooting each other to import illegal hand guns, but people won't accept it. This is why it's important to teach people that it's immoral to kill, so that over time people won't see a need for it. I mean people don't carry guns here for a reason in Canada, we don't need one for "protection."

F. I agree, but having hand guns readily available for people such as these is definatly not a smart idea. Could you imagine a gang war turf with rifles and knives? First of all, gangstas would have to disguard their weapons in order to run from cops on neighbouring gangs due to their size, and second they would be much easier to identify.

I 100% agree, banning hand guns is not as fundamental of a cause as helping those in poverty and teaching kids good morals from a young age. I would even argue that you guys in the states should teach kids that it's bad to use guns outside of hunting. However I see no positive with keeping handguns legal.

However keep in mind, I'm not from the southern states. I'm from Canada, out homicide rates are significantly lower despite population, geology, population dencity, ethnicity (Toronto is the most multicultural city in North America, with the highest gay population in any city in NA), or anything. Just the idea of needing a gun for "protection" is absurd to me. If your a vulnerable individual and you really want protection, get a taser gun, or mace, it works just as well.

Find me a study which says hand guns work better for self defence for rape victims then mace or taser guns. I garentee you that is not the case in Canada, but it could be in the states.

The idea just seems wack to me.

A. I'd have to reasearch the effects of alcohol on the murder rate, but I would assume that most people with the intent of comitting a premeditated murder are probably clear headed and focused. However, I could be wrong about that.

B. There are many reasons a person might need to protect themselves in America. Personally, 31 years living in pretty much every Southern state in the US I've yet to find an actual need to defend myself in that manner. Once again I did state that I've never had to threaten anyone with a gun, as a matter of fact I don't even have a concealed carry permit and don't carry mine with me anywhere. 

C. It was implied in your proposal to ban them. That being said, no its really not any harder for someone to hold up a store with an assult rifle. The average American does not carry a fire arm on their person at all times and even if so most of us aren't trained to handle the fear of having a gun pointed in our direction. You're making a lot of assumptions here about how one person would commit an armed robbery if all they had were an assult or hunting rifle. Most would opt to conceal their idenity rather than possess a weapon. You also put a lot of faith in Law Enforcement, which is nowhere near adept at solving violent crimes as they would lead you to believe on TV. 

D. Perhaps you're right about that, but once again read point B. You have to realize, as a Candian, what you see about America is heavily sensationalized and limited to very small parts of this country. Like I said I've lived in every state in the South (on the east coast) and now live in Washington DC. I've never once felt threatened by a citizen and this is a pretty diverse neighborhood. 

E. Different cultures, different results. You aren't instilled from birth with the same sense of personal Liberty and individualism that we are. They take something away from you, you say oh well, they take it away from us and organized crime on a level this country had never seen rose. You have to consider the people and the values. You'd only be putting those items in worse peoples hands. Who would you rather have access to weapons, someone like me who keeps his responsibliy locked away in a box in his home, or some drug cartel who just realized they could get even richer because now certain classes of civilian firearms are now banned? 

Also you have to consider the politics of this society. Most of us are very weary of our government and do not want them interfering in our personal buisness or telling us how to conduct ourselves, which points to the sense of Liberty I defined earlier. Also consider that most of us want large scale law enforcement operations minimized, largely because of the cost to the tax payer, and its ineffectiveness at stopping the actual problems in this country, The War on Drugs being a great example of that. 

Lastly, gun ownership is an idea perpetuated on the idea that other people own guns and therefore I should own one, so I understand why it may be non-sensical to someone like you who probably lives in a society where only Law Enforcement can possess weapons. Once again I point to Asian countries where personal gun ownership has never been an issue, because its always been prohibited, where as in this country has been glorified and most likely always will be.

F. Once again heavy assumptions about American culture. Cops do not heavily patrol gang riddled neighborhoods like you see on TV. A gang fight occurs and cops do the smart thing, duck and get out of the way until the bullets stop flying. More often than not, fully automatic weapons are involved in these as well, so the idea that gangs don't already use these in large scale fights is absurd in and of itself.

Once again different cultures have to be handled differently to keep them stable. Remember that whole ridiculous idea that the USA should blanket the Middle East in Democracy to fix all their problems? How well did that work out? 

Lastly, I won't look for a study showing which weapon has the best chance of preventing a rape because statistically the idea that anyone will be raped in a dark alley by an unknown assailant is absurdly low (I think it was less than 9% of rapes occur in this condition where the total number of rapes is only around 81k in a population density of 313 million people.) Most rapes occur in the same fashions that most murders occur, by someone known to the vicitim.

This is fun! Your turn!

A. Most homicides are Manslaughters (Murder under the influence of drugs or alcohol), usually vehicular manslaughter, but yea. Very few murders are premeditated, and often times those that are involve alcohol consumption. It's hard to plan to kill someone, drugs/alchol make it easier. People who murder don't think clearly. This is what it's like in Canada, in USA it could be different, I never took US law, just Canadian.

B. Exactly, so why not ban hand guns? What purpose do they serve when owners such as yourself don't even carry one? Isn't a rifle for the house/car good enough? Don't you find it f***ed that people go grocery shopping packing a weapon? Is it not safe anywhere in the southern USA? I think it's safe to go to Walmart without a pistol, and I think a home rifle for protection is good enough even though statistic Canada says that you're 3 times more likely to be shot if you have a weapon at home for "protection."

C. I guess things are different in Canada, I often head Americans critisize the effectiveness of their police force. I would just imagine that gangsters on corners selling crack would be more easily identifyable when they have a rifle down their pants (not an assault rifle, just the regular bolt action/semi-automatic rifles which are legal in USA). Also if criminals do rob a bank and police are chasing them, can you run with a rifle down your pants? Also crimes in more congested cities would be harder, it's kinda hard to miss someone walking into a store with a rifle vs. a handgun.

D. I wouldn't say I'm limited to large parts of the USA. I have a ton of family in New York, and I vist annually. I've travelled all over USA, down the west coast and east coast, to Texas, Denver, Nevada, Michigan, etc. When I went to Texas and saw people carry guns around, I really just did not want to be outside. Especially because many of the people carrying guns were those traditional rednecks, who I just don't trust.

Things are different in the USA, you guys are much more desensitized to guns. After 911 I was visiting Manhattan and I saw several police with semi-automatic carbine rifles. I was intinimated by the police and actually stopped walking down the street when passing one. I did not feel comfortable with that. Surprisinly, in Africa, I was pretty comfortable with the military (they watch tourist attractions) holding AK's.

E. How does that drug cartel get a gun if they are banned? In Canada, regular folk don't carry guns, it's all the gangstas. It's not a liberty being taken away, and I completly disagree with you on crime rates going up with hand guns being banned. Automatic rifles are banned in the USA, as are Rocket Launchers, is that a liberty taken away from you?

Freedom should have restrictions for the benefit of everyone else. This is why Opium based drugs are illegal, they are addictive and detremental to society. This is why automatic rifles are banned, you don't need to protect yourself from any small army's. This is why Speeding gives you a ticket, and excessive speeding is criminal (In Canada), to protect other motorists. Banning handguns is just a precaution, it just means gangstas and cartels can't just shoot you on the street. If they want to kill you, they will need to put more effort with a knife or a rifle.

E-1. "Most of us are very weary of our government and do not want them interfering in our personal buisness or telling us how to conduct ourselves" - Why? Why is this a bad thing? Why do Americans oppose rules and regulations so much? Why are police task forces designed to fight the war on drugs so ineffective there then they are here?

This is why I like Canada. Our Criminal code is federal, not state. It's actually effective here, not a joke. Plus people here respect our laws and constitutions because they are fair. Each state in the US is so different from one another, it's like California is a different country. Nobosy has any respect for the law in USA, not even politicians, and this is a fundamental problem in the USA.

F. Gangs using automatic rifles and cops running and hiding is just an example of how ineffective your police are. Here, first of all we don't see large scale gang stootings. Maybe 10 individuals total, all using pistols. When this happens we get about 100 cops on the scene. The number of police always drastically outnumbers the number of criminals. As a result people actually respect the police here.

As for rapes, yup, often times rapes are done in a house. There is something called the pants test, were if a girls pants are inside out, chances are sex was done by force, but if they are folded nicely or just on the floor, but outside out, then it wasn't done by force. Just one  indicator out of many. Still, will a gun help you when your being raped indoors? What if the bullet goes through the wall and kills a neighbour. Mace is just as effective in close range as a gun, and in reality a taser gun is just as efficient too. Have you ever been zapped by a taser? My frind bought one and I tried it out, it will mess you up, more effectively then a knife.

I like you, you don't claim to know everything and are fun to debate with. The thing is, it is a different culture, guns are really "oh my gosh, he's got a gun" here. Regardless if that person is carrying it or using it, people are just not desensitized to guns here, and automatic rifles just don't exist here. Plus homicide rates are much more affected by culture, psychological disorders, social stress, drug and alcohol abuse, etc.

I just see no reason at all why handguns are illegal.

Take a look from my perspective. only 15% of people in Ontario own a gun, just 3% own a hand gun. Most people who own a gun use if for hunting. What does a handgun do? People don't carry guns for protection. Even things like mace isn't too common around here. Police are effective, and usually bystanders will help out somone in trouble. There is no reason to own a gun. People in Canada just don't have that need for "protection" it's just safe here. Sure we have some bad neighbourhoods, but vulnerable people just don't go to those at night, simple as that, and it's very uncommon to see an act of violence done to a stranger. Stores and people who get robbed, just hand over the cash and usually nothing bad happens, and homicide victims are almost never random. Serial killers are made up, or fictional here, and just we don't need guns. So why not ban them? They serve no purpose. People don't use guns for "protection" here, that idea is just shocking and adsurd, and rifles work fine for hunting.