Final-Fan said:
Grey Acumen said:
CrashMan said:
How can there be randomness if god knows everything? You keep ignoring that fact that if god is all knowing then there is no probability. To him one is 100% likely to happen, because he knows it WILL happen. If he didn't know it WILL happen, he doesn't know everything.
How is knowledge of the physics of a roulette table and the knowledge of what a human WILL do (not may do, WILL do) any different to god? If god does NOT know what a person WILL (as in, not a chance fo anything else) then he is not all knowing, because, well, that's something he DOES NOT KNOW. |
Okay, I'm going to assume you understand the schrödinger's cat supposition, a visual concept used to describe quantum theory. A cat is either alive or dead, when the cat is not being watched, it exists in both states simultaneously. Same thing for free will. Until the choice is made, God knows of all possible choices that can be made because until that choice is made, all possibilities are simultaneously happening and not happening. Hence god can know everything without knowing what choice you will actually make. |
ONLY GOD IS NOT SUBJECT TO THESE RULES. He is supernatural, see my discussion with Kasz216. He can put the beatdown on Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle by observing the exact location and trajectory of a particle. He can create matter, or destroy it. (And has, according to you.) Et cetera et cetera. The Bible is FULL of this stuff, even if none of it is couched in even remotely scientific terms. What are you trying to say here? |
I'm pointing out that the existence of god does not negate free will. Actually, if you want to look at it in that direction, which actually is far more reasonable, God exists outside of time, hence every choice that we'll ever make has both already happened and not happened within the same observable point by god. So to him, he already knows what choices we will make, but that doesn't negate free will because we still exist INSIDE of time.
And I didn't misinterprete you at all on your last comment, I simply didn't understand your point at all, hence all the question marks as I asked what point you were trying to make.
Kasz216 said:
But Tombi is suggesting that if they are natural in their own world they can't be god. My point is that it doesn't matter if they are supernatural in their own world. My point is that god does not have to be "universally" supernatural. Which is a bad word for it
since he would be supernatural in our universe. But you get my meaning. If he created are universe (a supernatural act in of itself) then he is god. If got defys the laws of our world by keystroke. It's no different then if he does by pointing and saying alakazam. |
Personally, I would consider God to be hypernatural or ultranatural, because really, he's the source of all laws of nature, so of course he's natural. Or maybe more accurately would be natural is god?
