Evidence for the existence of God

[Final-Fan]

Final-Fan said:

Grey Acumen said:

godf said:
The problem with having an all knowing, all powerful creator; and then believing that he can condemn his creation, is more interesting anyway.

When God started the big bang and sent matter spiraling through the universe, he knew it would lead to every sin you are going to commit. When he reaches down to create you soul at the point of conception, he knows whether he's creating somone he will later damn or bless.

Seems a little unfair, eh?

Also, teh idea of knowing everything negating free will is also erronious. The only issue is if you think that one has to know only ONE single possible outcome. On the theory that every choice made creates an alternate path that the universe takes on the timeline, then every possible result of every possible choice could be tracked and followed.

"IF you take this action, then this will happen. IF you take this other action, something else will happen. Etc" There are an infinite number of possible choices to be made, but God is infinite and thus would be able to catalogue every result of every choice, and likely have a good feel for which choices are likely to be made as well. The choice itself is still up to thos emaking that choice though.

OK, but your God is not only all-knowing and all-seeing, but all-creating.

He created the universe, having complete perfect control over what he was creating at that time. Having, as he does, complete perfect knowledge, foresight, understanding, and awareness, he knew at that moment of creation every sin that would ever be committed by the free-willed individuals he was going to cause the creation of. He chose to go ahead and not create the universe differently.

Therefore, your God (assuming He exists) ought to get equal credit for every deed GOOD OR BAD that anyone has ever done or will ever do for all time. God is (indirectly) responsible for every sin ever.

And of course he is all creating as well, hence he IS partly responsible for when you do something wrong, just as a parent is seen as being partly responsible for their child misbehaving, but that doesn't change the fact that the child is still responsible as well, and in order to stop being a child, they have to accept more of that responsibility for themselves. That does NOT mean they have to refuse to admit that much of what they know is owed to their parents though.

Wait, is that supposed to be your rebuttal? As CrashMan said, that's ridiculous. It so completely fails to answer my point that it never occurred to me that it was a response to me until CrashMan posted. You seem to forget that God is supposed to be all-knowing. Parents are not. God knows everything that happens to you, affecting your life and giving you input for your decisions. He knows exactly how you think, so He knows what those decisions will be. He knew the same about your parents, and their parents, etc. etc. back to the beginning of the universe, and His foresight NEVER EVER gets blurry no matter how far into the future you go from the moment of creation because He had perfect control over His actions (so there is no chance that anything happened unintentionally).

God can predict what every single person on the planet will be doing AND THINKING a million years from now, or a billion years from now, more easily than you can predict that a ball you drop on a paved hillside will roll downhill, and He could also see that at the moment of creation. And He did, because God sees everything. That's the fucking difference between your God and parents of children that grow up to do whatever. And I'm honestly surprised you need to be told that.

If parents knew everything a child would ever do from the moment of its conception, or BEFORE they even conceived it, and that "everything" included raping and killing a dozen people, and they did nothing to stop it, then yeah I would be inclined to hold them more responsible than I do the HUMAN parents of serial killers.