TalonMan said:
Hey Brett! SUPRISE - I'M HERE!!! LOL!!!!
I'd like to put another spin on this, hopefully coming from a different perspective and maybe one that you and everyone else here can appreciate and relate to. For those that don't know me, there was a time I was a coding resource for Brett (I was affectionately referred to as the 'code monkey' around here) and helped develop and maintain this site alongside him. I've kinda lost track of the VGC x.0 numbering at this point, but if I have them straight in my head I would say I was a key helper in VGC1.5 (the last blue site before the black one) and VGC2.0 (the black site). Brett and I worked VERY well together - many times, I was able to read his mind and build stuff before he actually asked. And what he didn't ask for, you all did - and we (you/me/Brett) all built this site together.
What eventually happened though, was this site got bogged down with ALOT of features... ...alot of GREAT features, don't get me wrong!! I should know because I built many of them! :) But the bottom line was, it became bloated and I think some of it may have even begun to have a negative performance effect on the usability of the website.
So - the decision was made to split things out, keeping the best of everything tucked away in their own respective places and allowing those sub-groups to spread their wings and grow on their own. Now in Brett's defense, it was right around this same exact time that my personal career took off, followed by the addition of another kid to my family, and suddenly the time I could devote to VGC shrunk to almost nill - so as you all were beating him up about 'this feature is missing' or 'this doesn't work right' or 'I want **insert whiney request here**', he was forced into the unenviable position of having to pick up the pieces of all the code I left behind and having to try and rework it on his own into this new site... ...and ANY coder on this forum will tell you this is not, Not, NOT an easy task!!!! So certain things were likely sacrificed in an effort to move forward with the full intention of bringing them back as time allowed. And that's where we pretty much are today (I THINK!). Yes, there are still some things that haven't fully returned (VGC-IM) and there's a chance they may NEVER return - but some of that may be on me, and it is what it is. :( BUT, some things HAVE slowly been coming back (and perhaps even improved) and Brett is moving closer to where he wanted to be a few years ago - the VGChartz site, split into sub-groups, with all (or as many) of the features you guys loved best.
(how am I doing so far???) :)
...but this is where I will say I disagree with you, Brett: "VChartz now focuses soley on industry / sales information - this is how the site began and how it should have remained."
Yes, the website started out as a statistics chart and a rudimentary forum with a few freaks that would come in daily and bitch about the numbers. But as gamers, there are only so many times you can slice and dice the same numbers and have a discussion about the same thing, before you eventually have to put more meat on the discussion and begin talking about the actual game or console... ...and for THAT, you need to be able to insert things OTHER than 'x sold more than y last week' in order to have an in-depth discussion. You need spec comparisons. You need screenshots to compare. You need magazine and online website reviews. You need news articles about how a game is being received. ALL of these things are critical to having meaningful discussions and debates. And THIS is where the goodness that was VGC1.5 and VGC2.0 really shined - people didn't have to insert links that would send traffic to some other website in order to prove a point, they could reference VGCHARTZ!!!! And everything felt like a growing reference library (a reference library, I should add, that was being built and fleshed out by the same community for just this very reason) that could be used to enhance a discussion about 'WHY x sold more than y last week'!!!!! So, while the site DID begin as a strict industry/sales website - it only started to grow legs and walk when the community forums were given the LOCAL resources needed to keep the conversations going.
Today is the first time I've poked at the site in a few months - and before that, it was probably a year or so. Again, NOT because I had fallen out of love with this place (believe me, I am still fiercely loyal to Brett and I will back him any time!!!!) - I just simply haven't had the time! So, I have a pretty fresh perspective on some of what I see - and frankly, I have some problems with it. Here are my slightly uneducated observations - and I say 'uneducated' because I haven't scoped the forums close enough to know whether some of this was already answered somewhere else:
Gamewise - like the idea, but then again, wtf? Couldn't even get a .coM??? Ugh - very hard to 'brand' a new website when the first place I mistakenly went was a placeholder page trying to sell me a domain. But that minor issue aside, it just feels cold and uninviting in there - I couldn't wait to leave and get back to this forum where there are people!!! Yup, you can build up the database and add all kinds of goodies (and yeah, it sure works very slick!) - but if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it...??? It just doesn't feel as though there is an active community there as whatever discussions are there, aren't any more engrossing then when we built the 'game specific forums' into VGC2.0. I know the intent is to grab an 'imdb-type' audience (because I remember you wanting something like that four or five years ago!!!), but unless you have your own army to build the content - you need the community. And the VGChartz community is HERE, not there (yes, their accounts are physically there, but I just don't think as many are actually GOING there). The database was filling out BEAUTIFULLY in VGC2.0, not because it was such a special or interesting idea, but because it was DIRECTLY hooked to the community that came here for your stats and wanted something else to do while they were here. They certainly aren't going to come here to talk stats... ...and then later on, go to a completely different experience to flesh out a database... ...and then come back here later in the day to talk stats again. Last point on this - you said 'Gamewise doesn't take anything away from VGChartz', but I disagree. When I'm on VGChartz and I knock on the 'GameDB' door - it's not really a 'game database' anymore as it's strictly more charts. If I really want to interact with the game and/or do anything to help out, I'm redirected to a complete different website with a completely different feel and it just feels disjointed. It may not be taking away from the 'there is a link so I click it and I'm brought to the page' type of pattern - but it absolutely feels as though I've been 'taken away' from VGChartz and brought to the castle in ICO! And by the way, I was logged in here but had to login AGAIN when I got redirected to the Gamewise site - you can't POSSIBLY make somebody feel more 'taken away' than that!
GamrFeed/Review - again, I understood the reasoning but three years later - are you any closer to competing with Gamespot/IGN for hits in the 'gaming news/reviews' segment? Has the brand grown or are you still shoving the round peg in the square hole? And why NOT consider just building the VGChartz brand on it's own? You didn't want news articles and reviews to 'hide' behind the VGChartz brand? WHY??? Do they HAVE to be split up for some reason? www.billboard.com - I'm sure you've heard of them. Their main hook since the dawn of time is 'charts' and what songs are selling on a given week - that's what they do... ...but guess what? They also have NEWS and REVIEWS and PICTURES and everything else, all in one branded website! And I think they're doing pretty ok, but maybe I'm wrong?
Now - ALL of this was said with as much admiration and respect as possible. I love your vision, and I always have. When you first decided to go with this split-up, I totally supported you because why the hell not?!?!?! A website has to change and grow - otherwise it withers and dies. So, I'm definitely NOT the 'you should make the site blue again' type of poster (frankly, I thought the black was the best - LOL!!!). It's just MY personal opinion that when I go to any website, I like a nice EVEN, SMOOTH, and CONSISTENT experience - and I want to get as much as humanely possible, as quickly as possible, without jumping all over the place. And I'll give you a PERFECT example... ...I absolutely LOATHE nbcsports.com and NOT because of the content - it's the only website I go for all of my football (the oval ball where there isn't much actual 'foot' interaction!!!) news - but it is a complete friggin mess. Pro-Basketball, Pro-Baseball Talk, and Pro-Hockey Talk all look nice and uniform and complete (even though they are run with WAY different audiences and ABSOLUTELY different writers and editors) but they look way different than the main sports page... ...and then look at Pro-Football Talk - ACK!!! Even the articles from the main page and the different sub-groups are formatted differently! YEESH!!!!
There is an EXCELLENT book out there called "Don't Make Me Think" - if visitors have to 'learn' different ways to navigate to the information they want when they go to a website, they're not going to keep coming. And the fact that THREE YEARS LATER, you are STILL having to justify and explain the concept between the split - well, doesn't that say something?!?!?!?!?
Love ya, man - UP THE IRONS!!!!! ;)
Pat
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