Slimebeast said:
fordy said:
Slimebeast said:
You mention the Occupy movement and compare it with the uprising in Syria and question if it is representative of something larger. I do not know much about the Occupy movement but do you imply that the Occupy movement is staged?
Now you seem to imply that the uprising in Syria is staged. It is not staged.
Of course the Syrian uprising doesn't represent the whole people. Uprisings almost never do. But it represents the Syrians far better than Assad does.
I do not like muslim theocracies and how Christians and other minorities are increasingly being forced out of the ME and how these post-Arab Spring nations are becoming increasingly hostile towards Israel. But it's the nature of the region. I don't like this artificial situation where we've had dictators run these countries for so long. Let them show their true colors. Let them be religious societies if they wish.
I wish America would invade Saudi-Arabia and put an end to some of the civil wars and genocides in Africa. But that won't happen. But at least America does something while the UN and EU do nothing. I don't deny that America acts upon its selfish interests. I am saying that these interests happen to align with my own interests because I'd rather have America rule the world than a bunch of backwards thinking third world countries, Russia, China and even the EU.
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Don't put words into my mouth. There has to be a point where disgruntled protestors are suddenly classed as the "repsressed" of a government, democratic or otherwise. The occupy movement was to demonstrate the use of corporate money in politics, and how it's being used to influence government decisions. They had everyone against them, including the media and corporate entities, who pressured the mayor of New York to shut down the park that they were demonstrating in for "cleaning". Despite protestors taking ont he task and cleaning the park, they still shut it down. It's exactly the same as riots in Syria. The difference? Government control to silence these groups, whether it's through media, force or any other means.
You're missing the point. America does SOMETHING, but that something is purely agenda-based. Who's to say that the new reigimes in Iraq and Afghanistan are not dictatorial (or turn out to be)? America doesnt care. The only thing they care about is whether the new reigime continues to support them or not. So if you're all for removing dictatorial actions of Saudi Arabia, how about America invades Israel and puts a stop to illegal settlements being built? Oh right, you're all for repression of people that you don't agree with..
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So why do you bring up Occupy Wallstreet in the first place if you believe both (that and Syria) are legitimate uprisings that should be recognized as such?
Oh wait, I think you assumed I would be the hypocrite and think the Occupy movement was illegitimate while Syria uprising is legit. And actually you are right.  I don't have much sympathy for the Occupy movement in its current form. Because in the West we have democracy and ordered means for the people to show their will. I hate street protests as a means of expressing political opinions in the West. It's primitive and unfair and doesn't belong in an advanced civilzed democracy. While in a dictatorship it's the only way possible.
Yes, everything America does is agenda-based. I already admitted that. But you don't understand my point - it's the best we can get at the moment in this world. Because everyone has an agenda, everyone takes sides. And I prefer America's agenda over the rest.
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Do you see how odd that sounds? People should NOT speak up with criticism of America, but it's fine to do so in places that America doesn't like, and you don't seem to understand that many capitalist democracies are democracies in name only. The idea of allowing money as speech just gives the wealthy a LOT more speech in this so called "democracy". So what do you do? You can go to your representative, if he will listen to you...you could go to the media, except most of them pander to Washington's request. Protest comes when a group believes there IS no other choice, that their opinion is being supressed and not getting ANY form of recognition or debate. This can still happen in a democracy, and if you cannot see that, then there is no helping you.
Every society in history follows the same rule: a leadership is only as strong as the order they can maintain. This can be through force, propaganda, or other means of persuasion. Yes, even America falls into this, but it's more of a greed stance. "Sure you could overthrow us, but look at all the stuff you're willing to sacrifice for it". It's just a matter of people weighing up what they're willing to lose as opposed to what they have to gain, and believe me, it's slowly coming to America, too.
