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pokoko on 16 September 2012
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HappySqurriel said:
pokoko said:
HappySqurriel said:
To say something people will probably misunderstand ...

I honestly have mixed feelings about the current generation of consoles graphical capabilities. While I don't see a need for dramatically more advanced effects in game, it would be really nice to see increased performance to reduce polygonalization and pixelation artifacts.

Hypothetically speaking, I don't think I would see a big need to get better graphics if you could double texture resolution and increase the number of polygons devoted to a particular model (in general a 50% to 100% increase should be enough). Certainly, the HD consoles don't produce photo-realistic graphics, but I don't really see the need for photo-realistic graphics.

I'm ready for the next generation but it has almost nothing to do with how games appear.  Even though I do most of my gaming on the PC, I'm not a "graphics" guy.  I'm ready for more powerful consoles so developers can spread their wings on improvements like better AIs, more events taking place at once, and more interactive environments.  That's what the larger studios have been stressing out over.

I think part of the reason people are looking for more "power" from Microsoft and Sony is that both have exclusives and developers that push the envelope.  Nintendo doesn't really do that.  They leave that kind of thing up to 3rd party titles.

"Better AI" tends not to be the result of more processing power, it tends to come from having more developers spending longer creating more (and more complicated) scripts. Certainly, processing power can help but with how poor AI is in general it is really man power that makes it go. Physics simulations are heavily processing power dependent but developers are still learning on how to use physics in a way that produces interesting gameplay experiences (and is not just used for visual impact). More active objects/characters is nice but it is difficult to imagine how that will be meaningful beyond the Wii U's (rumoured) capabilities:

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that these are not necessarily directly related to processing power.

 

With that said, about the only thing I would disagree with you on is the comment about Nintendo not pushing the limits. On every system Nintendo has built they have been one of the developers to really push the hardware to its limit, and they have really only produced one system (the Wii) which truly had low processing power compared to what you could realistically expect when it was released. One of many reasons why I think Nintendo decided to take a step back with the Wii, and realistically hasn't been pushing cutting edge hardware with the Wii U either, is because it is difficult to control costs on game development when the capabilities of the hardware are "unlimited".

Most developers (even the bad ones) want to produce one of the best looking games for the system they're working on. Until this changes, or until developers consider best looking outside of strict photo-realism, producing a bleeding edge system in this day and age is kind of like offering crack to crack addicts. While many would acknowledge that it is bad for them few will refuse.

I've got to disagree with you.  Both AI and environments that interact heavily with the actions of the player have a lot to do with the limits of a system.

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"Ubisoft exploring procedural AI for next-gen consoles
by Alice O'Connor, Jul 06, 2011 10:15am PDT
Related Topics – xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Ubisoft, PC, Wii U, Ubisoft Montreal, AI

We all expect shiny new graphics from the next generation of consoles, but Ubisoft's Yves Jacquier has said that new and better AI should also benefit from the extra processing power.

Speaking to GamesIndustry.biz, the executive director of production services at Ubisoft Montreal talked about challenges with the current generation of consoles. "We're extremely limited in what we can do. It's a challenge for the engineers to provide nice graphics and nice AI and nice sound with a very small amount of memory and computation time," Jacquier said. "We think that the next generation of consoles won't have these limits any more. Games might have more realistic graphics and more on-screen, but what's the value of making something more realistic and better animated if you have poor AI?"

"AI has always been the real battleground. The challenge is that, if you see an AI coming, you've failed. And that's a problem we have to overcome as we create the impression of flawless, seamless worlds."

Procedural AI is one of the fields Ubisoft is currently researching as it explores "other ways of thinking" about making video games. The developer and publisher is investing $1 million over the next five years into poking around and looking at stuff.

According to Jacquier, "the industry expects that graphics will not be a strong feature any more" with the next generation of consoles. However, we shouldn't expect the graphics fixation to pass too soon. "Obviously, graphics are better for marketing purposes because you can show things. AI you can't show," he said.

Ubisoft Monreal is currently developing Assassin's Creed Revelations and Far Cry 3. With large crowds and cover-providing foliage for the AI to consider, no matter how respectable it is, we'll probably end up wishing the AI were a little more advanced."  --   http://www.shacknews.com/article/69172/ubisoft-procedural-ai-next-gen

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Also, I'm not sure what you're saying about Nintendo.  I said their game developers seldom push the limits of their hardware, that's not the same as saying the hardware isn't high-level.