Does Mario need to be so kiddy?

[F0X]

happydolphin said:

F0X said:

From my point of view, if you want to criticize a franchise for lack of originality, then Mario shouldn't even be a consideration, because even a game that is "stagnant" by Mario standards is still more creative in its presentation and design than most other games.

But from here on out, let's talk about personal experience. In Super Mario Sunshine, I loved the then-beautiful look of Delfino Island, especially the Noki Bay area. I remember diving into a deep, underwater pit and hearing "Underwater Exploration" play, yet another beautiful water-themed piece of music. In Super Mario Galaxy, it was amazing to stare off into the vast expanse of space, and deeply satisfying to rocket through its empitness, accompanied by fittingly epic music. And like its predecessors, it had its moments of respite. Of juxtaposition. To the point where some might call it the deepest, most reasonant Mario game ever released (but of course that's very subjective).

I may be wrong, but I think the source of your frustration isn't stemming from the smartly-presented, creatively-charged 3D Mario games. I think we're both concerned about the recent (and upcoming) 2D entries in the series, since unlike most previous Mario games, they stick to a simple aesthetic that doesn't try to evoke much emotion beyond the usual pure unadulterated joy. How did this happen? It could be the change in development teams. It could be because Miyamoto isn't as involved as he used to be. But it's most likely because Nintendo believes that, at the end of the day, it takes much more effort artistically to develop a best-selling 3D Mario game than a successul 2D Mario. I hope that 3D Land's success proves to them that there's an excellent middle ground between the two approaches. I hope that the beautiful backdrops of New Super Mario Bros. U allude to more depth and emotion than previous 2D Mario games. In the meantime, though, I suggest we criticize what actually needs improving, and not squabble over the fine details of Super Mario Galaxy's soundtrack.

I agree, and I honestly wasn't squabbling. I just wanted to give an example of something that showed the direction I disagreed with, whether that painted a good picture of the overall direction wasn't really my intent or interest, it could be just an aspect of the new direction and not the direction as a whole.

Yes, as a matter of fact you're right, my struggle is less with the 3D implementation of Mario than with the 2D one. In fact, I think SMG really did a phenomenal job in the artistic direction for many areas and aspects of the game. To me, it really is those few yet present experiences that alienate me. For instance, the hub in galaxy has a beautiful tune, but it is much too lullaby-esque. And yes, @JWein, I understand why, but it doesn't excuse the fact that it's alienating for many of us. Complement that with lumina sounds and it is really overbearing for some of us adults. Yes Phil Collins used some endearing words in his Tarzan song "You'll be in my heart", but who can't relate to the feeling of the consolation of a mother, no matter the age?

To follow your thoughts, I think the 2D version did a good job at keeping a balance, the colors were overall in line with most Mario games that far, and the music though of lesser quality was fun. However I didn't expect all 2D Marios to continue in the lesser music quality, this is one of the highest selling games Nintendo's ever made.

I remember the underwater music in Super Mario Sunshine, and I remember thinking "I'm glad Nintendo did it again", and just feeling happy that they were able to make that very close to as good as Dire Dire Docs. I was pleased. Even if it wasn't as good, at least they tried and it was darn good.

Ah, yes, I can see how there might be some aspects of the presentation that don't quite click. I had a similar problem with Pokemon Black in which, while having the best story in the series, the writing felt too simple and lacking in subtlety to me (maybe I'm looking for the word "kiddy"). It rubbed me the wrong way, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the game and appreciating its general direction. On the contrary, I like Pokemon Conquest's writing very much, despite having a much shallower plot, thanks to an abundance of humorous characters and dialogue that seemed more natural. I'm sure someone else who is my age and played both games sees it differently, but that won't stop me from mentioning that it bothered me.

In my experience, the Mario RPGs usually hit the nail on the head in terms of balanced appeal, combining great humor, memorable characters, and unique world design to create something truly memorable. I think the platformers could learn a thing or two about storytelling from their cousins... but Miyamoto seems to hate narratives that can't be summed up in five words or less.