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Zkuq on 07 August 2012
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zero129 said:
Zkuq said:
Meh, nothing new here. This is why I only buy games that use Steam as DRM only when they're ridiculously cheap even if I want them on release (Civ V, Shogun 2, and to some extent Deus Ex: HR). Not that this problem is exclusive to Steam, this pretty much applies to all DRM which is why I avoid games that use any kind of DRM. It's pretty easy to get around that problem by using GOG.com, which, at least according to my knowledge, is the only 100% DRM-free digital distribution service.

Yeah i get what your saying, and i see how not being able to re sell the games could be a problem for some people. But for me its ok cos i never really re sell my games anyway (I have been collecting my games for years xD), but yeah that would be a problem for some.

But for your other worries, they really cant just take away your games for no reason, as if they did do so without a reason no matter whats in that TOS you could sue them.

And if they where to shut down (I cant see this happining), you could still play your games in offline mode.

But yeah i understand how DD is not for everyone :D.

PS: i missed the last part, but like someone else said even when you buy a game in the shop you are still just renting the license to use the software xD

Oh, let's not even go into the second-hand market thing. Anyway, they CAN take my games away for no reason if they want. If I want to fight it, it's going to be a much bigger battle than I have interest in. And I'm not going to trust them to allow me to play games in offline mode if they shut down somehow. If they shut down, it's because they're in trouble and may not have the chance to make the games available in offline mode. Also, GOG.com offers 100% DRM-free copies so they have no way to control the products they've sold. Once I buy the game and download it, I can do literally anything with it. (Not that everything's legal but there's no restrictions to what I can do.)

thranx said:
Zkuq said:
Meh, nothing new here. This is why I only buy games that use Steam as DRM only when they're ridiculously cheap even if I want them on release (Civ V, Shogun 2, and to some extent Deus Ex: HR). Not that this problem is exclusive to Steam, this pretty much applies to all DRM which is why I avoid games that use any kind of DRM. It's pretty easy to get around that problem by using GOG.com, which, at least according to my knowledge, is the only 100% DRM-free digital distribution service.

while steam is DRM, they can not take access to your games away. You can allways choose to play in offline mode, or even with out internet. Steam (besides GoG) is probably the best there is going to be on online distribution as they let you back up your games to harddrive or dvd. and you do not need internet to play said games.

Oh yes they can unless I put up a huge fight. AFAIK Steam offline mode isn't a proper offline mode, you still the internet to log in first and only then you can go to this so-called offline-mode. Right...? And that backing up is useless to me because the only thing it helps with is not having to download the game again - and I have no problem with that, we don't have bandwidth quotas here. But please tell me how I can play Steam games with internet.

Gunman121 said:
Soleron said:

Any possible future class action. The big hypothetical one being, what if Steam shut down and deprived everyone of their bought games.

 

I am 100% baffled to the ignorance in this thread. The idiot posted this(with all due to respect) has no understanding to what this added peice to the TOS means, and the amount of misinformation in this thread is staggering. So let me correct almost all of you.

 

 

1. If steam goes under do I lose my games?

 

- NO!!!!!! You DO NOT lose your games, it's specificially said in the FAQ a special website for your login is designated and you can download / keep your games.

 

View the steam FAQ before you all make such bold accusations that the new TOS is so people don't sue them, if they don't live.

2. The new legal agreement is to stop people from suing when bad things happen!!!!!!

FALSE. The point of stopping class auction suits, is to stop greedy lawyers. For example, some person needs 2 million in reperations for some product that didn't work as it was suppose too. Instead of taking this to arbitration, a class suit is opened. Therefore more people are brought into the case. So let's assume there's 10 people involved within the case now. The lawyers take the company to court, and say that reperations need to be 20 million (10x2). (Sounds good right?) Now when the lawyers win the case, THEY TAKE 15-19 MILLION and then have the people divide up the rest of the cash.

DOES THAT SOUND FAIR? This change is what's preventing this. People ARE STILL allowed to take Valve to arbitration over disputes.


3. But... if he doesn't agree to TOS his account is gone!! BAD VALVE!!!

Is everyone blind or what? This should just be common sense. YOU'RE DISAGREEING TO USING STEAM. That's what the TOS is saying, in order to use steam you must agree to these following components. Why would you get to use Steam but disagree to every rule it gives you? Why should you get to avoid all rules.

Let's use a real world example. Let's say you went to buy a Car. You find the one you like, and go to sign for it. Yay the car is yours! Now let's say you need a loan to help you pay for the car, you go to the location and you're asked to sign a paperwork. You read it, and say "No I don't want to sign it!!!" -- Therefore you don't get the money.

It works just the way this does. Why should YOU get to keep using Steam, if you disagree to Terms and conditions... This isn't a program where you get to pick and choose what you believe in. It costs Valve money to run the service, they're allowed to make any rules they want.

4. But.. if you get banned, YOU LOSE ALL YOUR GAMES!!!

ONCE AGAIN FALSE. If your account is locked, you lose digital access rights to your game THROUGH STEAM. If you still have a valid CD code / Retail discs that have alternative download means, (Disc / Download backup) YOU THEN STILL HAVE ACCESS TO YOUR GAMES.



Stop being so picky people, and actually learn about the topic.


/end rant

 

1. Can't argue with this (aside from the fact that they're not legally obliged to do anything if something were to happen).

2. Maybe that's the main point but it also restricts the rights of consumers.

3. The main problem with this is that they can change the rules at any time and if people agree to the old rules but disgree with the new rules, they lose their games.

4. Oh come on, are you stupid or what? There's very close to NO games on Steam you can get elsewhere with the Steam keys. If retail games support Steam activation, it's always because they REQUIRE Steam, and if you buy something from Steam, it's almost never possible to use the CD key elsewhere. In the end, if you lose access to your Steam account, you lose access to practically all games on your Steam account, too. AFAIK some EA games can be registered on Origin but that's about all you can do about it.