Local Pastor Calls For Death of 'Queers & Homosexuals'

[kanageddaamen]

crissindahouse said:

kanageddaamen said:

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

kanageddaamen said:

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Why do you keep assuming that it's our government that decides if racist statements should be illegal or not? Our people elected our government, and if we didn't agree with it then we wouldn't vote for it.

Bolded: And there it is again. Just let the people be discriminated, it's their fault if they are incapable of using their freedom to protect themselves.

 

I use the word 'American' simply because of the lack of an appropriate word in the context. If you really are offended by my usage of the word, then I will stop using it.

Your government may be elected by the people but it is still up to its own discretion to make law.  Yes you can vote them out butwhat do you do if the majority of people feel a certain way that is against what you feel is best for your life?

That is why we have the first ammendment, so no matter how much the majority may view ANY speech as wrong (because it could apply to anything, athiests, theists, video games, movies, racism, sexism, etc etc etc)  the majority cannot coerce the government into denying the rights of the minority by the majority.

We have the freedoms protected not because we like that other people can say what they want, but because we want to make sure our freedom is not taken from us in the name of the outrage of the majority.

It is a person's own responsibility to make their lives what they want it.  I for one believe in a general moral and social courtesy given by most people, and the way to remove this sort of idiocy is not by the government telling people what they can and cannot say, which just breeds resentment, but by having free and open exchange of ideas.  Show people why things are right and wrong, do not dictate to them what they can and cannot do.

And I am not offended by you using the term American, I just find it telling about your true feeling of tolerance.

I think you need to understand where we draw the line. We do have the freedom of speech over here, which means that everyone is able to express their opinions without the fear of someone looking down on them. However, one may not use that freedom to take away the freedom from others. Expressing hatred towards minorities is a way of limiting their freedom; the freedom of not being looked down upon. How can you be free if people around you are able to call you names and treat you like crap in a way that is actually not prohibited by laws? You say that it's a person's own responsibility to make their lives what they want, but what if they want to avoid verbal mistreatment, but are unable to?

That is where the government, represented by the people, is supposed to step in.

 

Feel free to reject my 'true feeling of intolerance'.

People do not have a right not to be looked down upon by their neighbor.  They have a right to equal treatment under the law, but not equal treatment by citizens around them.  Saying that is trying to control the thoughts and actions of others, which does not work well.

Let me pose a hypothetical.  Say the majority of your population is struck by patriotic ferver, and coerces the government to ban any speech that goes against the government.  The justification being that saying something violate's a person's right to not hear bad things about their government.  Extrapolate that to ANY issue that may grip the masses and you can see how dangereous opening that door is.

Now, I do not expect people in other countries to understand the cultural complexities that are present in the US, like no other.  There are still unresolved cultureal undercurrents from the civil war and beyond that go beyond race and religion, and will never be resolved by legislation, particularly that which attempts to tell people how to act.  That won't work here so it is wrong for the United States.  It may be right for other countries.

We in this country are willing to be offended, looked down upon, insulted, and belittled to make sure our right to say what we please is maintained.  That is the tradeoff.  If that is not the trade off people want to make, then they should not live in the United States, as individual liberties will always come before an individual's self esteem.

To say that those priorities are universally wrong, and should be reversed, is just an imposition of your own opinion.

hmm if 50 guys in front of a house full of blacks say the whole day "we don't want abhorrent niggers inour country", they can leave the country so they don't have to hear it anymore? yeah that sounds great, if you get mentally hurt by some people the whole day, leave the country and you don't have the problem anymore! what?

why the fuck is it allowed to hurt people mentally but not physically? do you realize that mentally can be much worse for some people? just because people don't bleed does mean they have to live with it? that sounds like the logic of the year 1850 or so were people didn't know how bad it can be if you hurt people mentally. nowadays we know that people can suffer from that more than from a punch in the face, but you still act like it isn't a problem because, yeah it's not a punch in the face...

and don't say people in other countries they don't understand cultural problems or whatever because as example in france or germany you have exactly the same. we have millions from russia, turkey, poland, italy, serbia, romania and so on and they are all totally different (many of them are germans now and their kids as well but they still feel like turkish or russian people). sure not every place in germany but at least in most german big cities and some federal states.

or do you think in europe there isn't immigration from other european countries? and don't think europe is europe, every country and population is totally different with few exceptions. germany alone has 9 neighbouring states and those have no clue how many as well.

There is a difference between expressing your opinion (as this guy does) and harrassment (your example).  If you think it should be illegal for someone to say "we don't want abhorrent niggers inour country " then yes, you are probably in the wrong country.  

I never said that freedom of speech extends to the harassment of other people, but simply to the expression of ideas, regardless of whether those ideas are offensive to anyone.  The reason it is okay to "hurt someone mentally" is because that statement is completely arbitrary.  If a muslim person is truely offended by a picture of muhammad, and hurt mentally by seeing it, it does NOT mean we do not allow people to draw pictures of muhammad.  

I could claim that I find all religion offensive and abhorant, and that hearing "You will burn in hell if you do not accept jesus christ" as mentally damaging (it certainly is to children) yet there shouldn't be a law making it illegal to SAY those things.

Harassing a person should obviously not be allowed, but if you are offended by hearing people say the word "nigger" don't live in Alabama or any other hillbilly filled state.You can't try to FORCE people to stop saying it simply because it is offensive.

I am not claiming to know the intricacies of European multiculturalism, but here is a quick history lesson.  In the US we had a government originally designed to be a weak binding between the several states with most of the power manifested within the states.  The south was the heart of the agricultural production and relied heavily on slavery for the running of the plantations.  The white plantation owners viewed the slaves as their property, similar to any farming equipment the owned.  The south viewed the federal emancipation of the slaves as a massive invasion of the federal government into states' sovereignty and as theft of property which the felt the owned since they paid for it.  This of course boiled over into the civil war.  After the war was over the power of the federal government grew and several laws were passed denying states rights they viewed were in their perview.  There is STILL resentment in the south to this day over this and a view of African Americans as personification of their plight.  Racism can be indoctrinated in them from birth.

This is probably fairly unique to the United States, and you CANNOT make that go away with a law telling people what they can and can't say.  The deeper issue is the racism itself, which can only be resolved through education and the free exchange of ideas.  

The same goes for evangellical christians in the US when it comes to homosexuality.  Indoctrinated from birth.

You pass laws like that and you will only cause people to resent the individuals you are trying to protect.  You can see it clearly with affirmative action and hate crime laws.