Rath said:
Jumpin said:
Rath said:
TheProphet said:
Yes, the question of omnipotence vs free will has challenged our best minds for centuries. I am sure there will be no end to this debate. And it will certainly not have an impact on whether people believe in God or not. There is far to much scientific evidence of design making the free will argument just a minor philosophical curiosity.
However, on this subject I would like to make a couple of points. God created man in His own image. That means that man has the same free will that God does. That means that man can make free decisions independent of what God may want. It is completely up to us what we decide. An almighty God can do anything. So therefore an almighty God could create beings with free will he could not predict. He would not be almighty if He couldn't make a being with free will would He.
To support this argument I would just ask you to read the story of Noah's flood. Obviously the people of earth were behaving badly and of no use to God so he started over again with His creation, taking the best of the best. This story clearly indicates the humanity has a free will to reject virtue and God, but at a price. It also shows that God does not necessarily know how things will turn out otherwise he would not have to clean the slate and start over.
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Even if there was evidence that a god existed that would not mean it was the Abrahamic god. As the free will against omniscience contradiction shows that the Abrahamic god as literally described makes no sense that would imply that any creator god was not the Abrahamic god.
As for your point "He would not be almighty if He couldn't make a being with free will would He." What you're describing is the god paradox - is it possible for a god to limit itself? If god can limit his ability to see the future then he loses his omnipotence when he does so, if god cannot limit his ability to see the future then he is in not omnipotent in the first place. As such omnipotence is not logically consistent.
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I went over something like this further up the post, but omnipotence or omniscience does not mean a being has been granted the ability to see the future. The ability to see the future is incoherent with the rules of logic.
In order to see the future, it would one of two things.
1. A fourth dimension that can be traveled along.
2. The ability to predict with absolute certainty all events of the Universe.
Point 1 is incoherent with what we know scientifically. Time is not a fourth dimension; it cannot be travelled back and forth along like in science fiction films such as back to the Future.
Point 2 is not possible due to the existence of random and abstract factors. There would be absolutely no way to view the future with absolute certainty. The best one could do is calculate probability.
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The ability to see the future is not inconsistent with the rules of logic, you aren't even really making that claim. Your points both are that it's inconsistent with the rules of physics - something which I'd assume a God is above.
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It is a logical argument, and it goes as follows:
1. In order to see the future, it requires the ability to travel along a timeline in order to view the future.
2. It is not logically possible to travel through time, as it would instantly create a time paradox.
3. Therefore time cannot be logically traveled along.
4. Therefore time cannot be logically traveled along to see the future.
5. Therefore it is logically impossible to see the future.
Unless you can prove to me that time can be traveled back and forth on, then the argument of a time traveling God is logically absurd.
1. In our Universe random and abstract factors exist.
2. In a universe where random and abstract factors exist, it is not possible to predict the future with absolute certainty.
3. Therefore it is not possible to predict the future 100%.
Unless you can come up with another way God can see the future of the Universe, then the argument that God can see the future is invalid.
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