The Abrahamic Religions make No Sense

[Max King of the Wild]

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

SargeSmash said:
I've skipped over a good deal of the discussion, so if I've missed something, I apologize. The way I've always understood this conundrum is that God is outside of time entirely. He exists in what we, as temporally-limited beings, consider the past, present, and future. We are limited to only move from the present forward. God has no such limitations, and being outside of time, His observation of events does not affect our free will.

I've heard a friend of mine likening it to someone in a boat in a river. The river branches, and the boatman can choose to go one way or the other. He chooses the right. Someone on the bank of the river, outside of it, saw the person make the decision and is fully aware of it, yet had no influence on the actual decision. This is what God does. We make the decisions, but due to His viewpoint, he already knows our decision. It doesn't affect our free will one iota.

Interestingly, this also means that God allows evil to exist. And we know this has to be the case. God gave Adam and Eve the choice to either obey Him or not from the very beginning. Evil, by definition, is anything that is against God. And we know earlier that the same choice was given to Satan. And if there is no alternative to God, then there is no choice, and therefore we are merely automatons created to serve him with no free will. The fact that we are free to choose Him makes that worship actually worth something to Him.

Thanks for the detailed response, and I'd like to elaborate on your river example:

While God never actually did anything to affect this boat driver's decision, surely, as an almighty deity, he should have known what direction the driver would choose even before it made the decision?

Even if his will is free, God is still able to look one/infinite steps ahead. God knows why this person chose the specific direction that it chose.

 

The same thing can be said about any person and/or criminal: God can fully understand the reasoning from their perspective, and sympathize with their decisions, no matter how horrible or evil it may look from a non-omnipotent point of view, There is always a reason to why people choose to make decisions that are looked upon as evil actions, and God is aware of every possible reason there may be.

This is actually one of the theories I was refrencing to earlier. Also, I agree with someone else earlier in the thread that said I think your idea of all mighty is off.

Also, are you ready for a mind fuck? Maybe since he IS almighty that he intentionally limits himself and doesn't allow himself to know what choices you make until you make them even though he has the power to do so.

Also to elaborate the analogy earlier. Imagine a globe. The equator the time line. God is at the north pole. The lines of longitude is his vision. Basically he can see the past present and future all at the same time. but since god is a timeless being they would all be happening simultaneously.