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@superchunk interesting, i stand corrected, but then my next question would be what are they using the havoc engines FOR in those Wii games and even in some of the HD games?? It seems that some of the games are physics heavy and others are not. But hell, im not a designer, but im sure there is alot that goes into it.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, I still think that alot of those 3rd party games would not run on Wii without making significant changes to the design. The GTA4, or RDR, JC2, etc. would NOT be the same games if they had the Wii as the lead platform. IMHO im glad 3rd parties did what they did, take advantage of the much more powerful systems, so we could get features and gameplay not possible on the lower powered systems or just have everything equally but no game being as good as it could have been, just to appease some Wii owners.