WWII Thread (How come the West never gives the Soviets the credit they deserve)

[mrstickball]

FattyDingDong said:

mrstickball said:

When Stalin ordered that any soldier retreating would be shot and killed, I'd say the soldiers were fighting for Stalin.

My friend please stop it, i know you are way smarter than this.  You're telling me if Stalin did allow the soldiers to decide wether to fight or not, they would choose not to fight?  its crazy. most of the red army soldiers knew that it was necessary to defeat the nazis because otherwise they would be enslaved.  Stalin knew that Nazis had to be defeated at any cost so he made those harsh laws where every young men have to fight the nazis. there is a saying "It takes a stalin to defeat a hitler"

Thing is, Stalin nearly lost to Hitler. If Hitler was intelligent, and had taken the advice of his leadership, Stalin would have lost during Barbarossa, as Hitler would have made it to the A-A line. Hitler sent a million troops into a tactically unsound city (Stalingrad). Likewise, Stalingrad became a meat grinder which helped turn the tide not due to Stalin's brilliance, but Soviet deserters looking to survive. Hitler made blunder after blunder that no other military leader would have allowed. The only advantage Stalin had was that he began to differ to his generals once he understood that his military strategies were piss-poor.

Additionally, there is a difference between offering them death upon retreat, and proper military police. Or do you not know that? Its not like every other army in WW2 had similar problems. The difference was that instead of shooting them, they were jailed. That would have likely been as effective without being as egregious.

Again, reality is that almost any Russian leader could have defeated Hitler more easily if they didn't take on the stupid decisions Stalin did. Germany faced an atrocious, unprepared, poorly-armed army. There is a reason the Soviets lost 7 million troops in the war, while every other Western army fared far better - because Stalin and his preparedness was nothing short of inept. Go read up, and I mean really read up on Barbarossa. There is a reason that the Axis powers defeated the Soviets 10:1 in that phase of the war: because Stalin was absolutely stupid. Compare those figures when Gregory Zhukov was given the theater and the ratio plummets to 2:1 or 1:1 even, as during the Battle of Berlin, because Stalin gave power to his generals (quite possibly the only positive thing Stalin did in the war).