WWII Thread (How come the West never gives the Soviets the credit they deserve)

[mrstickball]

Sharu said:

Its so strange to see so much hate to the Russians... Hey guys, do you know that the cold war was finished 22 years ago?
And also some more thoughts.

1. Hitler's/Nazi crimes was shown to the world by the international court in Nurnburg (?). It was not made any real investigations regarding Stalin. He's not a criminal - don't forget you cannot blame person without court decision - its one of the main law principles.
Yes, it is some BOOKS that say that he killed millions of people. No proof.
It is some BOOKS that say he killed not so much people and all of them was Western spies. No proof.

Does not change when men undertake atrocities. Was Pol Pot ever tried for seeing to 1/4th of all Cambodians dying in a 5 year span? I mean, by your logic, Hitler never did anything either since he was never personally tried.

Truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

But you can't blame somebody blindly, without proof!

There are libraries full of research, eye-witness testimonies, and more. They've exhumed many mass graves since the Soviet Union fell. There is plenty of proof.
 
2. Holodomor. If you check - you'd see, that it wasn't something against Ukraine's people. It was a famine. People was dying in Russia, Ukraine, Khazahstan. And people was dying of hunger in USA at the great depression. Is it also Soviets fault?

Do some research, please. The Soviets took the grain away from the farmers and shipped in east, depriving them of feeding their own people. Again, eyewitness testimonies prove that. Census data proves that. Very, VERY few people died in the US during the Great Depression. There are no accounts of mass starvation during the depression - again, census data shows that to be the case. Birth rates did drop severely, but more people died from suicide than starvation.

3. I cant say for everybody, but now after 20 years in EU, Litva, Latvia and Estonia are in a much bigger mess then they was at Soviet times.

Can you give an exact example of thjat?

We can continue this discussion if you'd want, but please can you lower the degree of hate toward us. Russians are the same people as US,UK, Norway, etc... Don't be silly and dont afraid of Russian Ivan! :)

No one 'hates' Russia. I love Russia. I've always been interested in its history. What I hate are mass-murderers, which include Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao-Tse-Tung, Kim Jong Il, Kim Il Sun and others of that nature. Just because we talk about Stalinist war atrocities doesn't mean that we hate or have a problem with every other Soviet premier. I mean, I don't think I've seen anyone say 'Andropov was terrible! Khruchev was a murderer! Deng Xiao Peng was the worst Chinese Premier ever!". No, we only reserve that ire for the men that actually had something to do with the things we claim. And that lies squarely with what orders Stalin gave to the NKVD. We put the blame of a few elites, not the hundreds of millions of wonderful Russian people that lived decent, honest, productive lives.

You really should research into whate everyone says. No one is trying to attack the Russian people. Its just the leadership many have a problem with. That is no different than with any other country on the face of the Earth. People here hate the US government, the UK government, and so on and so forth, honoring civility and fostering good will to the people of those said nations - but one needs to (again) understand that doesn't absolve the nation of atrocities, or very dark times in their history. The sooner your nation comes to grips with the reality of its atrocities, and those who undertook madness, the sooner it can heal and move forward, knowing what caused the killing in the first place.