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FattyDingDong on 14 December 2011
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Marks said:
FattyDingDong said:
Marks said:
mrstickball said:
Marks said:
FattyDingDong said:
Marks said:


I didn't hear this from a Canadian history class my good sir, I took a trip to the Baltic States and Russia last summer and went to many museums and also visited the Stutthof concentration camp near Gdansk, Poland. The tour guide (and a short video we watched) talked about how when the Soviets "liberated" Stuffhof many of the people from the camp basically just became Soviet prisoners. They may not have been sent to death camps like with the Nazis but they certainly weren't sent back to their families or on vacation. 

Also one of the museums I went to in Riga, Latvia was all about Latvia under Nazi as well as Communist control and in many respects like under the Nazis was better than life under the USSR. Not if you were Jewish of course, but for the common non-Jewish citizen it was.

I don't remember exact details, but I remember the big picture, and it was that the Soviets were horrible leaders and made life worse in almost every possible way for the countries they occupied.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your OP, the war more than likely would have been lost if Hitler hadn't attacked Russia. Russia was vital to the allies winning the war. And they definitely don't get the credit they deserve as far as their war effort is concerned. 

That may be true but not if you are a slavic person meaning if you are (Russian,Ukranian,Polish,Serbian,Slovakian,Czech). Because Hitler despised Slavic people, he ordered his army generals to treat them very harshly which is why most of the Slavs chose to fight against the Nazis and form Partisan groups.Hitler ordered that for every 1 dead german, 100 Slavic civilians would be shot.  But if you were a Latvian,Estonian you would be treated fairly by the Germans. Communists treated every one the same. Nazism was only better than Communism if u were not from a "LOWER RACE" "Untermensch"


Yeah that's true dude, the Nazis were terrible to Slavs. All I'm saying is that the Commies were bad too, they weren't hero liberators of the concentration camps like they'd love us to believe. They did save them from certain death but they treated them barely any better. 

I love Russia so I was actually disappointed to find out what they did to the prisoners they liberated. I'm trying to find some sources to back up my statements but I guess not much is written about the subject. Everything just says the Soviets liberated the camps, doesn't talk about what happened to the prisoners after liberation. 

But I'm certainly with you in terms of their war contribution. Wasn't a ridiculous number of German casualties caused by Soviets like 75% or higher? Its funny that the Germans were so scared of the Soviets that there were mass suicides in 1945 when they knew the Soviets were coming! 


They were scared because they knew what the results of capture would be. They would be thrown in prison for the rest of their lives, and likely tortured. The Soviets were absolutely brutal to their prisoners - much like the Germans. Most Germans tried their darndest to surrender to the western allies, as they knew they would get treated much better.

True, the Soviets were horrible to German POW's and vice versa. 

Germans killed 57% (3.3 million out of 5.7 million) of the Soviet POWs they captured, but only killed 3.6% of British/American POWs they captured. 

I'm not sure the numbers for German POWs killed by Soviets. 

Isn't it funny how people point fingers at the Soviets for treating their prisoners badly. they have no idea how those enemies treated soviet prisoners. if the soviets were treated like American/British POW's then im sure none of those crimes would occur in Berlin. Some people even say that Stalin was a fool for not killing enough German civilians after waht the Germans had done to the Russian population. Ironocly, Stalin had ordered that any Russian who was caught killing an innocent German civilian will be punished.  Hitler on the other hand said "Kill as many of them as you want, Russians aren't humans". Now all i hear is" Soviets and their crimes". It's like living in Soviet Russia and listenting to Anti-American propoganda.

Interesting fact, 22,000 German Civilians died in Berlin most of them died due to the aircraft bombings.  14,000,000 Soviet civilians died in the hands of the Germans, most of them were killed by the SS Einzatsgruppen Death Squads. When you compare them it's just laughable how can anyone in their right minds accuse the Soviets of crimes, i actually feel like the Soviets took it easy on the Germans.

Bombing of Hamburg,Germany in 1943 by the British airforce killed 80,000 German civilians,  then the bombings of Dresden,Germany in 1945 even though the war was nearly over killed 200,000 civilians.  now compare that to the 30,000 british civilians that were killed due to the German bombings. It's just laughable.

here are the source

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Hamburg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresden_bombing

 

 

I'll admit I didn't really realize how many crimes were committed against the Soviets in the war. I knew they took the most casualties (including civilians) in the war but I didn't really realize it was just senseless slaughter by the Nazis. 

Its insane how 57% of Soviet POWs were killed by Germans but only 3% of US/British POWs were killed. And I didn't know so many civilians were massacred, I thought they were just collateral damage from military bombings. Didn't realize it was intentional slaughter. 

I'm not surprised so many Germans killed themselves at the end of the war when the Soviets were coming after how bad they treated the Russians. 

 go and search for "LEBENSTRAUM" "LIVING SPACE" it was a Nazi plan to conquer the east and annihalite 90% of  the population. Hitler even mentioned it in his book "Mein Kampf" Only a madman can think of that sort of stuff. Then again after all Hitler was a Madman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum

Lebenstraum - It was the stated policy of the Nazis to kill, deport, or enslave the Polish, Russian and other Slavic populations, whom they considered inferior, and to repopulate the land with Germanic peoples. The entire urban population was to be exterminated by starvation, thus creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany and allowing their replacement by a German upper class.



I trust no one, not even myself.