RPG Genre Discussion Thread

Crystalchild said:

Jumpin said:

I like RPGs with a turn-based battle system. I feel as though any alterations to that basic formula usually ends up in a cheaper feeling experience. Not always though, I found that some games have been somewhat successful adding in some action elements such as the ATB system used in Xenogears, FF4-9, and Chrono Trigger.

Games which have gone to an almost action style game (like Kingdom Hearts) are not even really RPGs anymore, they're action-adventure.

i would never blame you for calling KH an adventure game, since it got enough elements of it, though i agree with lestat - an rpg isnt defined as easy as a shooter, there's so much variation in this genre... and i mean, just looking at the difference between w-rpg and j-rpg, i mean, by the definition of either of them, the other one isnt an rpg. Japanese games tend to give you a straight path, focusing on the plot/characters and restricted character developent. looking at those requirements, KH is very well to be considered an rpg. if we only look from a western persepective, where making your own thing, and creating your own story and playstyle, define westernbased rpg's, KH is everything but an rpg.

so yeah, it depends on how you look at it, but since KH was made in Japan, and labeled an rpg by square itself, and also fullfilling the criteria, it simply is. But again, i wouldnt blame people for thinking different, since they look at it from a different angle. even if it is the wrong one. *g*

edit: of course beeing made in Country X doesnt mean that a game with a certain kind of elements is automatically an RPG, its just that... .. gosh, i dont know how to explain it. i think ... its just as it is? dunno.

Actually, there isn't a such thing as "JRPGs" this is a term that started being used only in the last decade. It was originally coined to disparage RPGs made with anime style vs those made with the more dark and unexpressive western style art.

lestatdark said:

Jumpin said:

Games which have gone to an almost action style game (like Kingdom Hearts) are not even really RPGs anymore, they're action-adventure.

That's a very limited and narrow way to look at the RPG genre. So you're saying that games like Diablo, any ES game and many others are not RPGs, even though they have much more RPG elements than most FF games or turn-based games?.

Do you know that some of the very first computorized RPGs were not turn based too? Eye of the Beholder, the Ultima series, the Wizardry series, etc.
Your definition of RPGs is very strictly adherent to what the JRPG sub-genre is about and, i'm sorry to tell you, JRPGs is but a niche sub-genre of the entire RPG genre.

What about Tactical RPGs? By your definitions are they not RPGs but RTSs? Or Persona games? Are they only Dating Simulators because the RPG portions only encompass a tiny aspect of the game? There are more flaws in your logic that I could pick apart, but I don't see the necessity for it.

I am not sure of Eye of the Beholder, but Ultima was classified as an Epic Adventure game series back when it first came out; and Wizardry DID in fact have a turn-based battle system: where the user type in commands, and then they would execute in turn-based fashion; somewhat primitive compared to the simple menu-selection based experience established by the original Dragon Quest. If anything, Wizardry was a proto RPG or a dungeon crawler. While it did have a turn-based battle system, it didn't have a story outside of the manual that came with the game, and it was less in depth than the original Zelda - and Wizardry had no graphical displays of their character movement - it was all done on individual screens akin to games classified as "adventures".

Dragon Quest established the genre of Console RPG - there is no "JRPG sub-genre". the term JRPG was never used in the 80's or the 90's and only began to be used in the past decade. RPGs, whether they were Western, or Eastern, or European - really took what Dragon Quest had done and ran with it - Wizardry incorporated menu-selection systems afterwards as well. The turn-based formula isn't some "niche-sub genre": See for yourself: