All right gamrConnect, we're going to play Zelda games together!

[Kenology]

Helios said:

Kenology said:
Ok, so I have another Zelda rant.

Currently I'm in the Snowpeak Ruins in Twilight Princess, but I'm also playing Ocarina of Time on the 3DS and some things are irking me about it.

The game had potential to be more challenging than it was had Navi not held your hand throughout the entire quest and pretty much gave you solutions to puzzles. But then, what also annoys me is how some puzzles would be pretty decent but then an item creates a scapegoat for it. For example: The very last room you visit in the Forest Temple's second floor - it has the pillar in the middle of a moat with a torch on it with the four rotating pillars around it and the frozen switch that untwists the second corridor. Most people probably didn't even have to figure out the puzzle at all and just got bailed out by using Din's Fire. There shouldn't be easy ways out of stuff like this, I don't think.

I actually don't mind that if it's done right. Ocarina of Time has lots of instances where extraneous items/abilities can come of use. Beyond the obvious example of the Scarecrow's Song, I think the single most notable occurance is the use of Fire Arrows in the Shadow section of Ganon's Castle. These instances are obviously meant to reward the thorough player. The problem is, as you say, that they often completely break the intended difficulty of the passage in question. The Shadow section actually is an exception, illustrating a good use of extraneous items by providing an alternate (but not entirely trivial) solution. Hence, I think that, when implemented correctly, the idea itself is sound. It's the same principle as with the dungeon items. Most Zelda dungeons show the utility of their designated items by letting the player use them in such a way as to trivialize any previously difficult passages before introducing new puzzles. It makes things seem more worthwhile by making the game (temporarily) easier.

I see what you're saying, and I agree the concept is sound when better implemented.  But the example I gave was a little irking to me only because most players would have Din's Fire already by the time they get to the Forest Temple - which ruined a really clever puzzle.