starcraft said:
Easily attainable? Do you honestly believe that HAMAS and their like would let up even if Israel did both of the two things you have listed. Why on earth should Israel move back to it's pre-1967 borders. An attack that would have completely wiped them out was imminent (not even the Arab states deny this) and through what was undoubtedely a fluke Israel won the ensuing war. If they ever move back to their 1967 borders, it should not be viewed as meeting a debt, but as an act of EXTREME generosity. As for making retribution, you are once again ignoring what I, and many others in this thread have showed you. The Israeli Jews living in Israel now never displaced Palestinians. Arguably, not even their ancestors did, it was the UK. And as you yourself have said, whilst these jews have been alive, the Palestinians have been just as wrong to attack them as they have been to attack Palestinians. They owe them NOTHING because the Israelis that are alive today did nothing to the Palestinians that are alive today that wasn't done straight back. |
RE: Hamas and similar factions.
Which, btw, extreamist points of view also exist within Israel from Jews. No matter what the outcome there will be people on both sides of the fence that will continue to hold hatred and do dispicable things. The idea is that once the Arab at large and Palestinian government accepts the terms you should assist them in terms of military and police strength to over power those groups and ensure a stable Palestine exists. One of the reason's Hamas can easily push out the PA is they don't follow the rules laid down by Israel and have a lot of weapons, whereas the PA police have little to nothing as Israel's long standing laws of occupation have outlawed Palestinians from owning any sort of weapons.
RE: 1967 war.
While it is true that Egypt technically acted against previous agreements and opened the legalality of Israel to strike them, the war was never close and Israel was never about to be wiped out.
For one, Jordan never participated in the war. At the time Israel's PM was Golda Meir and she used to be the leader of a Jewish terrorist organization (either Stern Gang or Irgun, I don't remember). She is known to have always favored the complete removal of Arabs from historic Israel, which includes about half of Jordan. Jordan knew that if there were another war, Israel would easily win and would take a large portion of Jordan with it. So he made a side deal with Meir that if a war began Jordan troops would retreat as long as Israeli troops did not pass the Jordan river. She agreed.
Secondly, Israel pre-emtively striked way before any Arab nation even knew the war had started. By the time Egypt and Syria could initiate any sort of counter strike their entire air forces were completely decimated. Israel had air superiority from the very beginning. Once that was gained, in the first few hours of the war, Israel proceeded to easily destroy any armored divisions in the Sinai and Golan regions.
Thirdly, the Arabs didn't actually think a war was immenent. They thought they had brokered a deal through the US to calm the tensions and save face. Because they knew that Israel not only had an military larger than all of thier combined, but much better equiped. However, Israel took that advantage and attacked.
The war was a brilliant military strategy from a much larger and stronger Israel. The only time in history where the Arabs had a remote chance of winning a war against Israel was in 1948/49. Even then they were out numbered and out gunned.
Israel moving back to these borders is simply the morally and legally right thing to do. Not an act of generosity. If you think I am wrong in these assertions I can provide sources.
RE: Retribution.
Your point is so immoral and biased it just is sickening. Sure someone removed from thier homes in Israel proper would be anywhere from 50 or more years old and as a percentage of Palestinian and Israeli populations these people who lived during that time are a very small number. But, that does not negate the fact that if Israel was not created there is a very high possibility that their decendants would be living in those very homes. Not to mention that after the 1967 war hundreds of Arabs were forcefully evacauted from Jerusalem and surrounding areas. Do you think all of settlements were built on empty unclaimed land? Do you realize how many farms and Arab homes have been demolished for these settlements? Or how many homes in Jerusalem that were forcefully evactated and resold to Jews or torn down to create a bigger worship area near the wailing wall?
The US has been in control of this (USA) land for 100's of years. Yet, we still make retribution payments to Native Americans. Why? After all none of *us* took their lands. None of them even remember what it was like to live freely in a tribal way. Because it is just morally right.
If Israel expects Palestinians to give up their legal and moral claim to their historical families lands, they should expect to make genuine retributions.
Now, all of this is a mute point as Israel has already hinted that they would do this instead of allowing Arabs to return. It really has been botched up in agreeing to full withdrawl to 67 borders, which include old Jerusalem.
