Allfreedom99 said:
Highwaystar I find it interesting you say this: Physics is a consequence of infinite chance. If an infinite (or incredibly large) amount of Universes existed, then there would be an unimaginable amount of combinations. hhhmm...I wonder if this hypothesis takes some, dare I say, Faith to believe it to be true. Can you observe infinite universes? no. You may think this possibility would explain why our universe was the so called "lucky" one that turned out this way, because you think this possibility is more likely than a creator. May I add that believing there is a creator that set all of the laws of nature, laws of the universe, and laws of logic in place is much easier than believing that we are the "lucky" universe out of an infinate amount of universes. I know some where in your clouded conscious you know that a creator exists. Go ahead and say im making a false presumption, but I honestly believe that somewhere in that God given mind of yours you realize that the possibility of God existing does indeed make sense and evidence can be seen of this if you were to allow yourself to accept it. I think you don't want to accept it, because you don't want to believe that something that powerful could exist. When I make the comment, "I understand there is no way to measure God with science", maybe I am using the wrong wording. What I am trying to say is that the concept of God makes more sense than any other explanation of our origin, however no tool, or method of study we can use can understand or capture the full essence and knowledge that our creator possesses. in light of your beliefs just "humor" me here for a moment. If a being that created everything we see, touch, feel, hear, and can study truly exists then that being would be more powerful than anything ever known to man, correct? Can a man create gravity when he is given nothing to accomplish it with? Can man create something such as mathematics, or physics into existence? of course not. These are things that have existed ever since humans existed. Trying to study a being that created the ability of study and logic itself is incomprehensible. You can know that this being has more power than you have ever seen, but if its infinite power then man cant possibly fully comprehend it through study. In an earlier post you said that "if God truly created everything then we would see evidence in every atom, surely." Actually we do see evidence of a creator in every atom if you have the correct view and understanding. what we know is that an atom consists of proton, neutrons, and electrons. What formed these? There needs to be some kind of energy with force and knowledge in place to make something. We even see similarities in Atoms that we see in our solar system. The electrons revolve around the nucleus when you examine an atom. There is order established. Highwaystar, you cannot have nothing in the beginning and come out with logic. Has matter always existed then? Has energy always existed then? Has logic always existed then? If matter and energy need logic to create other matter and the laws of our universe then that is an intelligent being and therefore our universe would have begun with intelligent design. Physics indeed does require a creator or the concept of physics could not possibly exist apart from the logic to create it. Even if there were infinite universes then how did all of those begin without any logic or intelligence to create them? I don't understand why you cannot accept this. I'm not trying to say that you are dumb, because honestly it sounds like you have studied a great deal. I just think you are confused, and I dont mean it in a cruel or insulting way. I argue this, because I care. |
Did you not understand what I was saying? I didn't say that's what I reckon happened, I was calling you on your false dichotomy by giving an equally valid hypothesis for the laws of physics as your God.
Your argument is literally along the lines of "I can't explain this, so it must be God". No, you don't know the reason physics exists, I don't know the reason, nobody can honestly say they know the reason! You can not offer a dichotomy in this case.
Ultimately, your God is the God of gaps!
I don't mean to be harsh, but the difference between you and me is that you're willing to jump to a baseless conclusion using only your predispositions in life, whereas I'm willing to take in the facts and theories and be forthcoming when I say I do or do not know the answer.
As for detecting other Universes. Yes, other Universes have been theorised in rather elegant mathematics (but unfortunately unconfirmable with any forseeable tests). Further than that it has been hypothesised that we can detect other Universes by analysing "cold" spots in the cosmic microwave background radiation (source). But again, who really knows for sure yet? I would say the likelihood is yes, but I'm willing to be proved wrong.
As for your second paragraph, I really think you should try answering the last question I posted to you before you make statements like "What formed these? There needs to be some kind of energy with force and knowledge in place to make something." If everything somehow requires pre-existing energy, force(?) and knowledge (?!?) then what energy, force and kowledge created your God?
I'm not in the mood for a theology debate, so I might drop out.
