| Allfreedom99 said: Scoobes I dont want to be rude but you are completely ignoring facts and the entire realm of science. Im sure that sounds like loonesy to you since you believe that theism is crazy thought. I want to comment on something you said here: For example, even a simple concept such as the molecular bonds in different molecules is simply a model we've put forward. We consider it fact because it works everytime and have maths that suggests it is true, but the actual mechanisms for such things could be different. Our minds create a model in order to allow us to grasp these concepts and put order to the chaos in the universe. The order and design you see says more about us as human beings (in terms of psychology and interpretation) than the universe itself. I have an important question for you scoobes: where did the realm of mathematics even come from? Where did we get the ability have process thought? Why is it that 1 1 is equal to 2? Why is it that the statement of "0 does not equal 0" is a false statement? What decided that? Mathematics is all around us on the earth, in the universe, in our bodies. According to you, what factors established the basis of mathematics? Was it a combination of dead matter and energy that created the concept of mathematics? Certainly from the existence of life there was factors that were calculable, or else the universe would have NEVER begun. you have to know that is a fact. The entire concept of mathematics comes from intelligence to use it. Without a higher being what else can create Math and science? Im sure dead matter cannot do that. You also said that I am placing layers of order in a realm of chaos. THEN HOW DO WE HAVE ANY ORDER AT ALL IN THE FIRST PLACE? Why is it that gravity was formed so that we dont all float off of our planet and die? If the building blocks for life began with just chaos and no intelligent order set in place then all you would have is chaos. We would never have the bonding of atoms, correct? No matter how much chaos there is still order that even allowed life to begin. Also you said: The last question for instance, we're likely very close to an answer. My present understanding is that simple nucleic acid catalysts formed that could eventually catalyse replication of itself. That eventually lead to the development of life. So in your annalysis answer this: Where did simple nucleic acid catalysts come from? what factors formed those? explain that to me, please. You also said this: You also say there are more holes in atheism... but that's not actually possible as atheism isn't really a belief as such. Quite the opposite. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a higher power. Nothing you presented is actually evidence of a creator and you admited as much, so all those "holes in atheism" are equally "holes in theism" because theism doesn't actually offer a full explaination, just a "higher power". The difference is that science will constantly try to plug any holes in our knowledge and further expand it, whilst faith will remain static. Tell me, Scoobes, if it takes faith to believe in a creator that has been here for infinite time, does it take faith to believe in space, matter, and energy as being eternal factors that have always been present for infinite time? If you say no you are denying truth. In order for the universe to begin we know that there must have been space, matter, and energy or else nothing would take place. You know your science so you must know that as truth. No matter what you believe in regards to how we humans got here, you have to give processed thought to the very beginning of everything when space, matter, and energy were present. I argue it is easier to believe in a creator than it is in space, matter, and energy that has always been present. You can tell me that science takes no faith but you cannot tell me that matter had no beginning without having faith that it did. An Aetheist MUST believe that matter, space, and energy had no beginning, because if it did then something else must have created the existance of those. What I am saying is that everyone MUST have some faith to believe anything about how everything began. That is fact. Therefore Aetheism must take Faith. You just have to ask yourself if you believe that time,space, matter, and energy have always existed, or if there is an intelligent designer that has always existed. |
This is getting quite long so I'll keep this short. You seem to have missed my point. An atheist doesn't have to believe that space, energy and matter must have always existed. He simply says, "Don't know that yet.... lets try and find out". That's the point I'm trying to get across. You say they must have always existed or their was a designer. An atheist (well, scientist) will see it as a gap in our knowledge waiting to be filled instead of jumping the gun with no actual evidence.
Plus, the concepts of space, time and energy are measurable. The concept of a creator isn't something we can measure or observe or even infer from effects.
And the question I answered, nucleic acids came from organic molecules combining in early Earth conditions (mixtures of methane, hydrogen, ammonia etc. with lightning as a catalyst). There are a few theories and papers as to how they came about that go into far more detail.
