vlad321 said:
pizzahut451 said:
vlad321 said:
pizzahut451 said:
Actually, you (for the 4th time now) missed my point. I never said I am right because I say so. Did you forget what we were talking about? You said ''Fairy tales are the same as New Testament'' on which I said that New Testament is all about morals and teachings and if fairy tales are about the same moral teachings than go ahead and compare them. Than you asked what makes the moral teachings in New testament correct? I said it all comes down to faith and if you believe in universal laws. And than you asked what makes christian morlas the right ones (and thus twisting the subject). You are just going in circles in here, seeing as how I already answerd that question. While the world can never agree on universal moral laws, I personally beleive that Christ's morals belong to the good ones, as you still havent told me what exactly is wrong with Christ's morlas or how his teachings go against any other legitimate religous figures out there, so your point collapses there until you show me some examples where other religous figures and moral teachings go agaisnt Jesus's, but I doubt you will, seeing as you cant spot a diffrence between a way of worshiping a God or Gods and religious morals. And dont say stuff like ''people worshipped more Gods despite Jesus telling there is only one
And your last paragraph couldnt be more logically flawed. As far as I understood you, you said if we dont know much about a beleif ( be it a beleif or theory) than that belief must be wrong. So Big Bang theory is also false than? So people didnt know anything about Earth being round than, so going by your logic, they were right in assuming otherwise? And your proved (you didnt actually, I disproved you) that a religious person has a lot fatter chances of ending up in Hell than an atheist person, but I already disproved youn on that. You didnt prove that atheisism is more likely to be right than a specific religion
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First of all look at the underlined portions. You can't even go a paragraph without contradicting yourself.
Second I still hold all religions are fairy tales. There are plenty of morals to learn from Aesop's fables, which I have already said are just as valid as whatever you get from the bible (and keep in mind Aesop was around 500ish years BEFORE the fairy tales of Christ came about). Furthermore asking what makes christianity's morals right right ones is the exact same thing as comparing it to any fairy tale and its validity. If you can't realize that then I am sorry for assuming you would understand the argument, obviously I was wrong. You can find a "moral of the story" in any story. Name me a fairy tale and I'll give you the moral. Little Mermaid? Don't be an idiot and sacrifice your life for lost love. Hensel and Gretel? DOon't take candy from strangers.
Yes, if you actually read my past arguments you would have known that I said if fairy tales give the same correct laws as Christianity than by all means go and compare them. That wouldnt make the New Testament any less vailabe or credible. The diffrence between the New Testament and fairy tales is that New testament contains stories about the person that actually historicly existed and was real while fiary tales have imaginary characters. Another diffrence is the point and scale between fairy tales and the New testament.Fairy tales usually stick to the one moral point trought the whole story and have much smaller purpse than New Testament which contains lots of morals teachings together and aims to teach every person how to live a good life, and that mean New Testament has a lot bigger purpose and aim than any fairy tale out there. And ''the moral'' of the story is the most important thing in the sotry.
I also already gave you a good example of another religion with its own morals going against christianity's. According to the Aztec's it is very moral to be sacrificed to a given god, it betters the entire population's wellbeing by appeasing said god, and you can win wars or have bountiful harvests depending to who the person was sacrificed. Correct me if I am wrong, but this practice isn't exactly in line with Christ's teachings. It was very moral for a person to be sacrificed.
You still cant seem to distinguish a difference betwwen the practice of worshiping and a moral. Aztecs religion says the killing was OK if you do it for God/in the name of God. That is a religious pratice. But I bet if you could have asked Aztec person if he would gladly kill someone just for the heck of it he would have said NO because it goes against his morals. They only thought killing was OK if you do it in the name of Gods (the same way christian soldiers felt during the crusade but they were wrong too unfortunetly) There are hunderds of religous practices that disagree with Jesus's teachings (actually, most if not all of them are from dead, forgotten erased pagan religions by dead forgotten erased people) but I am sure any person of any religion wouldnt disagree with his morals. Any good person, that is
Well you obviously did not understand me, again. I did not say if we don't know much about a belief, I said if we know nothing about a belief.So we dont know anything about Christianity? Maybe you dont, but dont use it as a fact. Which is true ofr any given religion. There is absolutely 0 reproducable and observable evidence for anything that pertains to a god And to contrairy as well. There are absolutely no evidence that the existance of God is a made up lie.(other than the fact that meditation actually relaxes you). Meanwhile the Big Bang has had several pieces of evidene, which is observable and reproducable, therefore it is infitely more right than absolutely any bullshit any fairy tale has ever claimed.Hahaha, LMAO, epic self pwnage right there, funny that you mention Big Bang. You wanna know why? Big Bang was a thoery THAT CATHOLIC CHURCH CAME UP WITH. Yes, thats right, catholic as IN CHRISTIAN, as IN PEOPLE WHO PROMOTE GOD. The thoery was first proposed by a catholic priest Georges Lemaitre. Why dont you go and learn a little bit about Christianity and Big Bang before we continiue this conversation, huh?You also fail SPECTACULRLY to understand the point, because the people who believed that the earth was not round is wrong, not right. If you don't have any information, you are guaranteed to be wrong.So just like atheists? Is there any info that God doesnt exist. I mean, God is the most easiest, most reasonable explanation for the creation of universe. In fact it wasn't until there was some mild evidence to suggest otherwise, which the ancient Greeks found. Even better, let's run with your analogy. The Greeks found a small amount of evidence of the spherical nature of Earth, and lo and behold they were more right (infact they were absolutely correct) than any other bullshit people had come up with before that. Substitute "spherical nature of Earth" for any topic, and you will find that religion is just as believeable as any fairy tales, and is simply wrong. In fact, before there was evidence there was a whole lot of shit circulating around about what the earth is. It is flat, it is on a turtlle's back,etc. etc. All those beliefs are the equivalent of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, etc. etc. Basically they are ALL WRONG, simply because no informatin exists.So until we get no information on alien life in space, alien life in space doesnt exist and its made up by humans, but when we find evidence, the aliens automatically somehow magiclly appear in the universe right away even thoug it wasnt there before we found the evdence? I hope you realize how retarded that analogy is. Christianity, Judism, Hinduism etc etc are ALL BASED N FAITH. Just like atheism, we dont know if its wrong or false, none beleiff system has evidence for its existance, thats why its called A BELIEF. it means it hasnt been determaned as true or false based on lack of evidence on both sides, there are only thoeries and arguments about the beleif being wrong and right, but neither side has been proven right or wrong and never will be.
Lastly, I have proved MANY times why atheism is more right than any religion, however as seems to be the trend with you, I will have to reiterate because I assumed you understood and I was wrong. Take the entire space of "T," where T is the combination of all the different combinations of "things" that created and govern the entire existance. Within this T, there is a space A, in which some sentient being/force has/had a hand in existance. Both spaces are infinite, however the space A is far less inifnite than the space T. For an atheist to be wrong, the truth has to be within A, for him to be right it has to be outside of A. Meanwhile for a religious person to be right, they not only have to be within A, but also have to be in a very spcific, infitesmally small, subspace in A. Simply because the space where atheists can be wrong is much much, infinitely, smaller than the space in which ANY religious belief is wrong. Therefore atheists are less wrong than religious people, infinitely so. I sincerely hope you understand at least this argument.
That is only if your agrue about the SPECIFIC religion. If thats the case, than MATHEMATICALLY,atheism has bigger chance of being a right beleif. If you argue about religions or theism in general (which I tought you had, maybe I misunderstood you) than MATHEMATICALLY theism has a MUCH BIGGER chance of being a right belief. Not like this point matters thou because your original point was that an atheist person is a lot less likely to end p in Hell than a religious person. I proved that to be wrong.
For a simple example of how both a religious person and an atheist can be wrong: Some comic being went to the Cosmic Taco Bell and had a Burrito. He suffered from food poisoning and shit out our universe. Just like you don't care about what you shit out, it doesn't give a damn about anything in its shit, meaning our universe. In this case atheists are wrong because then there is a god-like being, but all other religions out there are also arong (unless someone out there says that our existance came about from soeone's shit). Keep in mind that this is simply one possibility out of an infinite amount of possibilities. What you descirbed there is a deist.Dont know if your heard about them.The reason they are infinite amount, is because we have 0 information about what happened before the Big Bang. Therefore ANY specific theory, which is what religions are, have the probability of being right as 1/infinity, which is equal to 0. Until we have more information that dates before the Big Bang any theory is wrong.And Big Bang being the CHRISTIAN thoery is irrelevant right?
Edit: You DO realize that "religious morals" is the exact same thing as "religious beliefs," correct? Especially when you claim their are the universal morals.
No, lets compare Islam and Christianity to disprove you. Christians beleive (and that, thus, being a religious belief) that Jesus Christ was a son of God and Muslims think he wasnt a son of God but a prophet and that is their religious beleif. But they both agree on his morals. Even Qu'ran describes Jesus Christ as one of the most important prophets in thier religion. So they have a different religious belief on JesuS Christ, but they both beleve in his morals.
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As I said, morals are the exact same as beliefs. The simple fact you gave me 2 relgions that have the same morals does not prove that claim. It just shows that 2 religions have a very similar belief. Furthermore, I don't see how you can judge those pagan religions, and call people who disagree with them "good," you have as much evidence for YOUR morals as they do.The ONLY reason why you call people who have christian morals and not aztec morals "good" is because christians killed off the aztecs, not the other way around. I guanratee you, 100%, you would think that human sacrifice is very moral had the aztecs taken over Europe.Actually, that compression proves my point very good I'd say, I have showen a a difference between a religous beleif and morality.Do you care to say how my comprassion is bad? And where did I judge those pagan religions? And like I said, im pretty sure that Aztecs would agree with Jesus's morals, only thing on which would they might disagre with is is the practice of worshiping. And we didnt kill off Aztecs, they converted to our religion. That only further proves my point that they didnt disagree with Jesus's morals, otherwise they wouldnt convert to our religion :) And dont say that they were forced to, because the convertion to christianity happend after all the wars and conquests in Aerica were over.
Furthermore, Christ is supposed to be the son of a virgin ( to be honest, she was probably a whore trying to not get killed by her husband if he found outI dont think she was a whore. Do you have any evidence for this or do you just wanna unsult Christianity? Im pretty sure she wasa virgin.) and god. The same god that had existed very much before he was born, and that is outlined in the Olt Testament. The validity of Christ rests solely on that god,LMAO, hell no. You seriously have no clue about christianity, do you? and that god's validity rests solely on fairy tales, something like 40ish books depending on the church. Define ''the vaildity of Christ''? What kind of vaildity do you mean He was a historicly proven person, is he not? He was also the only sinnles person ever to walk on Earth, something not possible of you are a normal human and not a son of God. Did he have to be the son of God to teach the righteous morals to the people? Those fairy tales are what make the difference between Christ being a son of god and a virgin, and Christ being an amazing con artist and a son of a whoreAnd yet, I already explained the difference between the fairy tales and the New Testament. New testament follows the life events that actually happend of the person that actually existed.Fairy tales are exactly oppsite. Let's face it, the latter is infinitely more believeable than the shit from the Old Testament, again due to the lack of any information that the bullshit in it could ever happen.
Also I know everythign there is to christianity that pertains to their evidence, and none of it is reproducible and observable.Christianity never aimed to prove the existance of God, I already explained why would God never give any observable evidence to the living people. You can't even observe such a basic foundation as the "soul," much less reproduce it.Of course, you couldnt, why the hell could you? I mean do you even know what a soul is? Its the one thing non-biological in your bady, the only part of you that lasts forever. Its your conscience, as in wheather you feel bad or good when you did something good or wrong.I also don't see how a catholic priest proposing the idea of the Big Bang is somehow self-ownage, considering he proposed it given evidence from Einstein. In fact, it proves my point further. The people didn't know jack shit until such evidence was brought up.Actually,Einstein refused the idea of spreading universe. The catholic priest was the first one to intorduce that idea. And it is a self pwnage because you talked about how Christians provide no evidence for existance of God, and yet Big Bang was originally mean to thoerize the Gods creation of Universe.
Your ability to not understand is astounding me. How do we not have evidence of alien life? We have evidence of how life comes about, what is necessary for life like ours to prosper, and many other such things. We can estimate the size of the universe and the fact there are many millions of galaxies, with billions of stars, each of which may have many planets. Statistically, there is a very high chance of there being life.Yes, there is a chnace and I am 100% sure there is an alien life, but there is no real observable evidence on the existance of it, so going by your amazing logic, it would be wrong to consider that alien life exists until we get information and evidence on it.Our knowledge of outside of our solar system and the universe is extremly limited Furthermore, faith is not information and evidence.Never said it was. Faith is a bullshit feeling/emotion that humans exhibit because they are too dumb and try to make themselves seem more important than they are.More than 5 billion people disagree with you. Apparently most people have problems realizing that they are utterly insignificant in the grand scheme of things.They dont. I think everyone knows that we are alost nothing in the universe. I also like how with your brilliant understanding you came to my conclusion, but somehow tried to pass it off as your argument. No belief has any evidence, and is therefore wrong.So atheism is also wrong? Faith doesn't make a belief right. I would also LOVE to hear how mathematically, there is a greater probability that there is a being associated with creation, because there are far more combinations of possibilities where there is no being than when there is. Being associated with creation? In order for theism to be right, out of 100 of Gods out there only one of them has to exist, for atheism to be right every single one of these Gods must be non existant.
Lastly, you REALLY need to work on your reading skills because I never said that an atheist is less likely to go to hell. In fact, I never mentioned hell in any of my arguments until you brought it up because you failed to read. Do you really want me to go 4-5 pages back and show you where you said ''atheist person is a lot less in Hell than the theist person.'' ?
P.S. My original point is that everyone with a belief is as right as fairy tales. In other words, everyone knows absolutely jack shit about our existance, and the creation of such existance. If any set of religious beliefs are correct, then so are fairy tales by the exact same damn arguments. If fairy tales are wrong, then so are all religious beliefs, by the same exact arguments. To use some technical language. The problem of the validity of religion can be reduced to to the problem of the validity of fairy tales.Events and characters in New testament existed and happend (thou it is true that some things other pagan religious characters had were described to Jesus by the church). Events and characters in fiary tales never happend and never existed. PERIOD
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