Lots of bashing for the belief of God....

[Final-Fan]

DélioPT said:

Final-Fan said:

1. 
And why does Hell exist, where people who don't believe go to get tortured forever?  Because God said so.  That's what you're not understanding, or not admitting:  that this consequence is something God CREATED.  It's not just "something that happens", any more than it would be "just an accident" if you put a "wet floor:  please stay out" sign outside a bathroom and electrified the water so anyone disobeying the sign would die. 
2. 
"he gets an EQUAL share of blame since he made it happen just as surely as the people with the blood on their hands."
First, knowing in advance what will happen means nothing. You have freedom to the what you will, so if you shoot anyone the blood is only in your hands, not God`s. That`s like blaming people for our mistakes.
Without freedom and free will, we would be no better than rocks, so to speak.
--I'm not saying it's not their free choice, but it was also GOD's free choice to make the universe in such a way that people would do that.  It's like this:  people don't blame the parents of serial killers because they mostly did the best they could and the kid just turned out evil.  But suppose there were some parents who KNEW everything the kid would do in life before they even had sex to conceive it.  Suppose they KNEW that the way they raised him would end up with him torturing squirrels or whatever and then eating people's livers with fava beans and Chiantis.  And they went ahead and had sex and had the kid and raised him that way and not a different way that would lead to a different result. 
--Whould THOSE parents not also bear some of of the guilt for his actions, since they were the NECESSARY CONSEQUENCE of their own actions? 
--And if you deny that all of the murders ever committed in the universe, etc., were known of in advance by God, you deny his omniscience and/or omnipotence IMO, but go ahead and use that to get out of this because as long as you consistently hold that viewpoint it's a legitimate counter to my argument here. 
3. 
I've heard people say that no matter how hard you try you can't live life without sinning ... a LOT.  You disagree? 

1. Because they rejected something that is Absolute goodness, so you get the other side of the coin, so to speak. And no, i am not insensible to that nor God is, that`s why He lets you redeem until the very end. Why don`t you consider that aswell and the fact that there is a Heaven too as a reward.
--Hell is death`s salary as heaven is life`s reward.
--And there couldn´t be another 3rd option. Be or not be, poisitive and negative/heaven or hell.
2.
"GOD's free choice to make the universe in such a way that people would do that"
Nothing was determined from the start. To reach something Absolute goodness and holy they had to a)be as God or b)deserve to be with Him.
--That`s a BIG supposion, but alright. You just forgot that if they knew they could had changed the way they raised their kid. But that`s no important. What is important is that people do what they do but should be responsible for their actions and that doesn`t change.
--You are trying to make a poin that is not valid. God puts us on neutral grounds, that example puts us with an influence. So no, God is not to blame for our mistaked even if He foreknew. Knowing something in advance is not the same as forcing or making it happen, it`s like skipping ahead of the whole thing to see the result.
--Being free is part of human nature, what you do with it it´s your own responsability and that`s what you not fully consider.
3.
I`d lie that one sins! Of course not me, i`m perfect! :D
Point being? Because there is one! ;p

1. 
Why do you say "reject"?  Why can't they just not be convinced that God actually exists?  According to you, people are going to hell all the time for simple ignorance.  Surely a loving God would provide some more convincing evidence if the price of not being convinced was eternal damnation. 

And why couldn't there be a third option?  Why couldn't God just make a third option?  I defy you to give me a real reason, that positive/negative stuff is just bullshit.  I mean, be or not be?  What is that even supposed to mean? 

2. 
Your post is half nonsense and half wrong.  If I make a clay pot with a big fucking crack in it, and the pot leaks, is it my fault?  No, it's the pot's!  If god KNEW that making the universe this way would end up with all this death and cruelty, and he KNEW how to make it differently but chose not to, and made it this way, he is indirectly RESPONSIBLE for the results. 

OK, you don't like the "parents raise an SK" example?  Well what if some guy was donating to a sperm bank and he KNEW how the kid would end up, even though he'd have no contact with him for his entire life from the fertilization of the egg, and the kid would turn out to be a serial killer and the guy did nothing and still chose to donate the sperm? 

Or, let's say there would be 5 kids from one donation, and 3 of the others were pretty nice and one of them even cured cancer.  That would be worth the price of the serial killer right?  Well that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve blame for the serial killer just as he deserves credit for the cancer cure. 

I don't know how you guys can praise God for everything good that people do, and deny that he bears any blame for the bad that people do, all with a straight face.  Well, I guess I do:  doublethink. 

3. 
Because there is one?? One what?  This part of your post is complete unadulterated nonsense and I conclude that you have no answer to my point, if you even understood it.  If you are interested in continuing this, please consider how point 3 relates to my earlier point 3 and your answer to it; otherwise, you can just drop this one.