An immoral relationship?

[sapphi_snake]

 

@DélioPT:

Actually ethical systems only change on the outside, which means that the perception of said value can be improved or worsen.

No. Just no.

Values like dignity and respect always were part of us.

History shows otherwise.

Even if they were ignored that doesn`t mean the were meaningless, they just weren`t contemplated as being part of us - when they are part of us as we can`t talk about one value and ignore the rest. They are all connected.

This makes no sense. Morals are invented by people, they're ideeas created by humans. They don't exist independently of humans.

Change/reasoning may bring enlightment and a better perception of what we are. And when that happens we can say it fits.

What does this have to do with morals?

When we were able to see others as humans it`s not like we invented a new concept of ethics on humanity, we defined it in a better way; we complemented it. That`s what happened throughout history. The core doesn`t change: it gets recognized and and improved.

Actually the core does change and has changed.Again, history shows that.

what societies did with this was a balance of what morals were more relevant in a given time or place.
"moral principles" are nothing but a way to help us elevate ourselves to live what who truly are. Wrkong with the core changes more principles but doesn`t necessarily change one with another. For example, we can talk about dignity now than we could a century ago, not because of consensus per se, but because we are realising with time what that concept truly means.
Understanding an ethical system is understanding ourselves.

What you're saying is simply wrong, and makes no sense. As I said, ethical systems are invented by humans, they don't exist independently. They're not understood, they're created. And they only have value if society at large accepts it, else you'd have a situation where everyone has their personal moral systems, which could lead to conflicts.

The true meaning of Christianity isn`t what we say, it`s what God and Jesus taught us. Christ is the source of Christianity, not a single person.

Isn't Christ a single person? And yes, the true meaning of Christianity is what Christians say it is. Christ never said anything (he never wrote anything), and God doesn't exist.

Thinking freely is one thing, expressing it is another. The only thing that cultures can opress is expression. I don`t think anyone can stop anyone from thinking what they want, or stop, aswell, what we think is better for ourselves.

Thinking is an accquired skill for most. If you don't have access to information you'll probably be ignorant and believe everything you're told without ever thinking that it may not be true. As I said, most people are sheep.

As is said before, cultures to educate but they don`t makes us unless we tag along. Of course cultures/societies creates desires. Just look how everyone cares so much for being hot or sexy. Is that important in my life as a definition of what i am? No. And that`s all that matters: the ways we define ourselves.

A culture represents a person's entire universe. Everything one knows about anything comes from culture. The way you walk, the way you eat, the way you sleep, these are all determined by culture. Even what people find "sexy" is determined by culture (in the past fat women were considered attractive, and in ancient times men were considered to be the fair sex). Even the way you think is determined by culture, unless you're a remarkable individual who can see through culture's mirage.

Cultures are the reflexion of societies. They are even more abstract than societies. And as such they are a posteriori to us and even to what we know of ourselves. Only after i exist, and with that, what we recognize of ourselves, do society and culture exist. They are out product, that´s why can`t a product defines. It does help recognize ourselves, but no more than that.
It`s like making a drawing and then say i am after it`s there. I was there even before i made it. I made with what i am.

Cultures are invented by societies, however culture predates you and me. Culture was a posteriori to the people who invented it, however culture is a priori to humans today. Everything we know about the world we know from culture. Almost everything we learn about the world around us, we learn from culture, including information about ourselves.

That`s a very low and very reducionist point of view on what religions are.
Lies made up by humans? And don`t a lot about religions, but the ones i know, they are the product of an history where Gog reveal Itself to us. If you don`t believe in that, as i know you don`t, that`s another thing, but there`s no need to call it lies when you can`t even prove your point.

Prove what? You're only talking about the myth aspect of religion, which sadly you view to be truth., There's no "revelation", because there's nothing to reveal itself. That's just a myth constructed to fool people.

To be used for control and opression? You are too attached to the bad doings of religions to see beyond that. Christianity for example had the Dark ages. Was it a truthfull voice to Jesus`s life and teachings? No it wasn`t. And everyone can realize that man failed in showing Jesus and God in that.

Jesus's teachign can be interpreted to say whatever, so that's not an issue.Plus, religion is used for control and oppression, even today.

Religion holds no truth? What truth are you talking about? A truth that you can verify? A truth you can live and feel?

There's only one kind of truth, the kind that's in accordance with reality. Everything else is just lies.  

"only lies where people can give no answers." Answers to what?

Answers to things humans cannot give any logical ones. Questions like "Where did we come from?", "Does our existence have a meaning?" etc. These questions have no answers yet, so people make up answers to them.

There are certain things that we just can`t explain because it`s beyond us. Can we, believers, explain with 100% accuracy what God is? We are not God to that. Should we throw it away just because it`s not perfect on our end? Only if we are ready to throw ourselves with it as we aren`t perfect and we can`t explain ourselves perfectly.

What is this "God" thing you're talking about? I've never seen such a thing in my life, nor have I found any reason to think such a thing exists.There are ltos of things we cannot expalin. This "God" thing isn't one of them, as it is a mere human invention, a concept made up by humans and naturalised through culture, hence why some people think such a thing exists (culture creates a universe that often has nothing to do with reality).