Gran Turismo 5 will fail to sell...

[Michael-5]

4k1x3r said:

CGI-Quality said:

4k1x3r said:

CGI you have my respect to be able to bear with his arguments ans statements for so long =D

As for graphics, I think all GT5 has on Forza is lighting, Forza 4 will change that though, as it will have a similar lighting system as GT, and multiple false light sources.

That part killed me. =D

I agree, the statement is nothing more than an assumption. Right now, no matter what people thought prior to release, the game has performed well enough in the States, and is doing fantastic in it's strongest region. Japan is the one, true, disappointing region, but looking at other big franchises, GT5's sales are a little less shocking.

Graphically, it's been accepted/noted by most reviews that GT5 is the best looking, most advanced console racing sim. Lens of Truth & Digital Foundry are pretty sharp on tech and they both agree with that.

In short, GT5 isn't perfect (which really shouldn't have been expected nor hyped), and it had more expectation laid upon it than just about any title to date. But it succeeds in satisfying GT fans and it's selling like a franchise of it's caliber is expected to sell: big. We'll see in the upcoming weeks/months how it looks, but I'm willing to bet it ends off 2011 at no lower than 7 mill, 2012 no lower than 8.5-9 mill, and 2013 no lower than 9.5-10 mill, screeching to 10 mill really, but closing it's lifetime numbers @ that total. NA - 2.5mill, Japan - 800,000 mill, EU - 6.7mill

That's what I don't undestand, people who have the right tech to compare GT5 with Forza 3 how it should, have come to the conclusion that GT5 is a better looking game, yet he comes back and tells "No I think""I guess""I believe" (yea I believe alot of things too, not sure they're true or will happen).

@Micheal-5 Dude, try to read again what you said in the whole thread, you'll see that you're full of contradictions in your arguments because... well because when you've been proven wrong, you try to change what you said to make your cluelessness/nonsense appear less obvious.

4k1, you treat me like an ass because you disagree, but your opinion does not reflect reality. So I'm not going to debate with you if your going to mock me for being disappointed with GT5. If you read my points, there are no contradictions, it's called logic, and just because you can't comprehend, or just don't accept the way GT5 has been selling/reviewed, doesn't mean you should insult others who may just be more realistic.

In the end, graphics are subjective. This debate is your opinion, versus mine, versus everyone else in the forum. There is no magic checklist that adds up the pro's and cons to each games graphical limitations, and magically produces a number to judge each game with. All there are are comparisions, like those seen on GameTrailers, IGN, Gamespot, and other websites. If you read the comments of these videos, people opinions are heavily devided.

In case you don't understand my view graphically on the game, 200 prenium cars GT5 is better, especially on the interiors because I really like the was the A-pillar casts a moving shadow on every surface. Exterior, slightly better, it varies from car to car, but cars like the Pagani Zonda R, Audi R8, or Lotus Evora, I really don't see a difference on the outside. The other 800 cars in GT5, they don't have an interior view, so there is no comparision on interior, and Exterior, the car models in GT5 look like HD remakes of PS2 cars. Forza 2 had significantly better graphics then GT5 cars did. Enviroments, I give slightly to Forza, but the difference is small, so who gives a hoot. Thus I don't think graphics in GT5 are better then in Forza 3, they are for the 200 prenium cars, but that only comprimises 20% of the drivable cars in GT5. How can you say GT5 has better graphics when the first used Honda Civic you play in doesn't even have an interior view?

Geez, don't be a hater just because I stand behind points you don't agree with. Go find youself a 1 lined statement and say :P, thats all you do, you don't debate...

@CGI: It's nice to see your not as critical as you used to be, but supporting rude comments like the one 4k1 just made doesn't make the forum any better.

Anyway, your completly right, Forza 4 graphical statements are complete assumptions at this point. However if Forza 3 is managing to match or surpass GT5 graphics (according to most comparissions/reviews), then it's very likely that Forza 4 will be even better. This is no different then people assuming GT5 would have had better graphics then Forza 3 in 2009/2010, which didn't exactly turn out to be the case (If there is a real difference, it's small, that much you can agree with).

As for your last statement, I'll agree that the game succeeds in selling as well as prior installments. You've seen the type of predictions I have made in the past. It also does succeed in satisfying it's fans, but not all of them (I'm pretty dissapointed because I honestly think Forza 3 is better, and well I expected more after a 5 year development cycle).

However I'm not sure about your sales estimates. You state them as if 2013 already happened, but we really don't know how GT5 will sell come 2011. This is the first GT game to be released in the holiday window. Sure EMEAA sales are about the same as GT4, and that is the strongest region, but how much of that can be contributed to the Holiday boost all games see? The game could easily drop to 50k weekly after 10 weeks (GT4 was about 100k), and that would crush future sales. We just don't know what's going to happen after christmas for the game. Even then with the holiday boost, Japan sales are looking only to be half of GT4's sales, probably even less. Americas weekly sales are looking strong now, but those first 2 weeks were very week for GT5, and weeks 2-4 are relativly constant, which leads me to beleive it's largely inflated due to the holiday rush.

I don't understand how you can ignore the fact that GT4 was released in February and is matching GT5 sales for a November release. Maybe your right, and it won't make a difference in the long run, but a week first couple weeks, and then a high stabilizing point to me imply holiday boost. If GT5 wasn't selling 500k weekly during the holiday season, only a couple weeks after the game was released, then I would be worried. I'm not saying your wrong, I may just as well be as wrong as you, and our overall predictions are only off by 600k (You predicted 10 million, I said 9.4). I'm only saying you shouldn't present your opinions on future sales as definative (it will sell no less then x million by 201x), especially after comenting on how my statement on Forza 4 is merely an assumption.