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Helios on 27 December 2010
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richardhutnik said:
Helios said:

What I, personally, expect from games is no more or less than I expect from any other kind of cultural item. Games are, after all, social, cultural, intellectual and artistic constructs no different from any other form of human expression. Games can - and do, in fact - facilitate communication of all kinds of ideas, just as every other medium.

What I don't expect from games, is "fun". I'm not the first one to say it, but it truly is a useless, vapid excuse of a term. What does it actually designate? Nothing and everything. It's entirely subjective - and, I think, far too narrow to cover the wealth of possible game experieces - and that makes it useless as a critical tool. It's actually the basis of this entire thread, because playing for "fun" is considered to be a frivolous and puerile activity.

What I want from a game is simply a lusory experience. What kind of experience that is, is entirely dependent upon the game.

Fun can be defined as entertaining and having an enjoyable time.  Something that does that can do other things to, but the question would be as to what one would expect beyond this.  So, would you agree that a game should at least be entertaining and provide an enjoyable time?

I did say I wanted a lusory experience - that is to say, I expect to want to keep playing. So, yes. However, I don't approve of the idea of a game as mere frivolous fun. I know a lot of games that are everything except that kind of fun, yet they are entirely captivating. A famous example: http://hcsoftware.sourceforge.net/passage/. Simply put, if it is fun, it is fun of an unconventional sort.

As for games being play, I see games as a kind of structured play. Games can be more or less like free play, but the important difference is that game players accept the (designer of the) rules as an authority, and play is structured and given meaning by that. If a player doesn't follow the explicit/implicit rules/spirit of a game, then his play isn't actually part of the game at all (this would be the case with the Holodeck).