kowhoho said:
Smidlee said:
kowhoho said:
gergroy said:
mrstickball said:
So what about Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot?
Ideologies which have large power bases are the problem, not religions per-se. Look at those that were not religious that held great sway in politics - Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and many others did some dastardly things, none of which were in the name of any god, but in the name of their political ideologies. I'd venture to say that those four combined killed more men and women than any person has in the name of religion.
One could list many of the beliefs of secularists over the past century or two, and come to the conclusion there is a lot of evil in any ideology if it is used to undermine those that they believe are societal ills.
On the other end, I could cite all the great things Christians have done for humanity. It has been a major force for hospitals, food banks, poverty relief, and humanitarian aid over the centuries.
In the end, power breeds corruption and abuse. The more power an ideology has over free thinking people, the more damage it can cause, as it will hurt the minorities that do not adhere to the majority view. This is expecially true when the ideology devalues the life of humans, which has been the case with some ideologies.
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This pretty much sums up how I feel. Religion on its own is not bad. It is actually a very good thing, teaching people morals and to treat one another with respect and dignity. It's people that can be corrupted and can use bits and pieces of an ideology to help fuel an agenda.
Not saying that religious persecution doesn't happen, because it does. Myself being a Mormon I'm well aware that religions are persecuted by people of other religions. However, I don't really blame other religions for the persecution, I blame the people that do it.
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I don't think it's ever really a good idea to "teach" morals. What one considers common sense may seem ludicrous to someone else. In cases of childhood indoctrination, a child leads the same spiritual and political life as their parents. "I'm a Christian and I vote republican because my parents do." And no, that isn't hyperbole. I've heard people in my school say those exact words when prompted.
Teach a child logic and they can come to their own conclusion. We can learn morality simply by observing the interactions between people in our lives and the consequences of our actions.
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War is logical, as it kills people and logically we need a lot of people dead. It can be argued tha logically we need the weak to die to make room for the strong.... thus logic can be very dangerous to use to guide morality.
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I hate that people don't think science or logic have a part to play in how we actually lead our personal lives. There are answers out there, to all our questions!
How is war "logical?" We are a social species which must work together to survive. Therefore logically we can do just about whatever the hell we want unless it hurts others. Nobody has gotten to wear they are in their successes purely on their own. The truth doesn't hurt, whatever it is. It's always better to seek it out on your own than it is for someone to simply tell you, "lying is bad." If you honestly never told a lie, never flattered someone or humored them for their sake, where would you be and where would they be? They would have suffered far more.
Once you realize wer'e a social species everthing gets easier from there! :D
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