Khuutra said:
In the first place, there is noting particulaar dismissive re: arguments by pointing out that conjecture and analysis are inherently different animals with different implications for an argument. In the second place, the correlation of staleness with lowered sales ceates a false dichotomy in which more fresh gameplay dynamics would necessarily equate to higher sales, but this isn't the case: one of thhe games that Resident_Hazard mentions as embodying freshness, Majora's Mask, is the worst-selling mainline console Zelda title in every single territory (except for Japan, natch, where it beats out TP by about 100k). Twilight Princess, often derided for being "Ocarina 1.5", is the best-selling Zelda title in every territory that isn't Japan. I am all for the discussion of topics and the discussion of various reasons as to why something may be the way it is: that's the entire reason this topic exists, and it's the entire rason I've been carrying on conversations up to thisp oint. However, it needs to be said that tone is important in any conversation in which one wishes to build an amiable atmosphere, and it must also be said that one cannot claim to have come to a conclusion by analysis when one has not done so. |
Staleness creating lower sales is a false dichotomy? Generally, the staleness of the Mario Party games created, for the most part, gradually lowering sales. That, and Nintendo was just making too damn many of the things. Which, I will point out, is something they've been doing with the Zelda franchise as a whole. Years passed between the first four games, way back in the day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda Scroll down a bit and you'll see that games that impact the most on the series were spaced apart the most in release dates.
Numbers are fun and all, but we need to think outside the box for a lot of things. Numbers aren't going to explain why Zelda sells less. A theory with some thought behind it can offer a potential solution. You can't disprove my theory, just as it can't be readily proven without, say, some kind of hefty polling of Japanese consumers. You act like it if can't be analysed from current internet "stuff" that the theory is automatically invalid.
You know, techtonic plate movement was considered a laughable psuedo-science at one time--at a time when it was no more than a very good theory that had some thought to it. As science advanced, the scientific community realized that it was factual. Now, my theory cannot easily be proven or disproven (and I admit my first post wasn't glamorous, but I get flamed a lot here for what I can only think of as "not following Nintendo-love groupthink," which, while a poor excuse, never-the-less may have influenced my quickie post).
Yes, Majora's Mask had poor sales. But there were three things working against it we must not overlook:
1. It was released fairly late in the life of the N64 (2000), at a time when large-scale abandonment of the system had happened for the Playstation, Dreamcast, and people looking forward to the PS2, which launched that year.
2. The requirement of the RAM expansion didn't help things. Nintendo didn't really hand out the RAM expansion the way they have with many of the Wii's accessories--namely by bundling them left and right with all kinds of crap. There weren't a lot of these things out there. I had it, but then, I was still looking forward to the 64DD!
3. Nintendo fans have, unfortunately, shown a habit for turning up their noses at change far too many times. Many turned their noses up at Wind Waker just for the graphics (which were it's only real saving grace, aside from a storyline that actually sorta linked to Ocarina). Look at the Wii--a system where doing things differently across the board has been ignored because the gamers want all the games to be exactly like the releases on other systems, just using the Wii Remote. LordtheNightKnight admitted as much in a different thread--he didn't want the creativity promised by from Nintendo pertaining to the Wii--he wanted all the same games as the Xbox360 and PS3, just using the Wii Remote. Which, I'm reasonably sure, completely negates the point of the thing as Nintendo saw it. Personally, my Wii collection is of a decent size, and focused almost entirely on games that are different and only available on the system. Oh, except for Scarface and the Guitar Hero titles.
Saying that Majora's Mask's change is what hurt it is a false dichotomy given the circumstances of it's release, all things considered. Hell, you even backed up my theory (which you are arguing against) by pointing out that it performed better in Japan--where we're discussing the lowering sales overall of the franchise. I postulated the theory that "maybe staleness is hurting sales" and you added to my point by showing that "being different was previously beneficial to the Zelda franchise in Japan." This in no way proves my point, but even despite everything against Majora's Mask, it out-performed Twilight Princess--a game requiring no extra equipment, released on a console which was far from flagging in it's popularity.
For the record, I didn't buy Zelda or New Super Mario Bros Wii for my Wii. I did buy NSMB for the DS, but I didn't put all that much time into it compared to other DS releases.
Any tone you found was interpreted how you wanted. As Dee Snider once said, "you get out of music what you're looking for--Tipper Gore was looking for S&M, and that's what she found." Perhaps you were just looking for some kind of tone to flame. I admit my initial post in here wasn't fantastic, but it didn't ask for any kind of rude response.
I know my ideas are not always popular, but without a voice of dissent, what have you got?
....*chuckle*
Okay, I resisted the urge to actually make a joke about the Zelda franchise here.
