Why does Sony fail at making another mega franchise?

[Michael-5]

zgamer5 said:

RolStoppable said:

zgamer5 said:

gears of war copied killswitch, so all those games which copied gears of war actually copied kill switch hence it did "redefine" the genra by your definition. and yes kill switch did have many of the elements of gears, blind fire, a cover system.....

halo copied games, hence those games are the ones which redifined the genra, again, copieng a agame that isnt original doesnt mean that that game redifined the genra.

many games copied god of war, but god of war didnt redifine the genra. 

again, you contradict yourself, if something is unique then it is redefining (well it has to do with how important those elements are and a weight system is), just because nothing copied killzone doesnt mean that it isnt redefining. again the sony franchises are fine, and they could be mega franchises. but they dont appeal to the mainstream gamers, alan wake has the elements to become a mega franchise, castlevania has them, mass effect has them, infamous has them, killzone has them, but theyr not mega franchises, that still doesnt dispute the fact that they have the elements to become a mega franchise, and that they are as good as mega franchises.

also again gears, halo didnt redfinine their respective genras, same with cod, but they are mega franchises, mainly because they appeal to the mainstream.

lol lbp sold more then 3.6 and its selling about 10k or more every week, it should surpass 4 million.

again quality doesnt equal to sales. mcdonalds isnt the best restaurant in the war, also wii sold the more, that doesnt mean that its the best console(tech wise). uncharted 2, demon souls, batman arkham asylum, won many game of the year awards last year(demon souls won one, i think) but did they sell the most? they didnt. 

you do know what diverse means? a little bit of that here and their, the ps3 user base is about 37 million, if lbp reached 5 million that would mean that 13.5 of its userbase like platformers. lets say the ps3's userbase has 5 million people who love platformers, are all of them going to love lbp? no cod, halo are mege franchises but many peopel dislike the games.

the sales potential of 2d platformers arent huge on the ps3, other then lbp i dont know a game that passed a million(maybe sonic unleashed). this isnt the wii, the wii is all platformers and wii... something with the exception of zelda and other big nintendo franchises. thats why mario with huge help from its brand power gets such great sales.

about the 2 million levels in lbp, many gamers like myself dont build, we play! also the 2 million are without counting the thousands of crappy levels. also lbp sales are 3.6. if it didnt have the create aspect it would have gotten less then 2 million sales.

 

if you want to continue this debate pm me, i dont want to keep this thread alive.

If people talk about the cover mechanics in games like Uncharted, Quantum Theory or Vanquish, what do they say? "It's similar to Gears of War." Nobody cares for kill.switch, probably because it wasn't well executed. Not well executed = not amazing. Which game defined the 3D platformer genre? Super Mario 64 or Jumpin' Flash!? The former did even though the latter title was released first. Super Mario 64 was amazing while Jumpin' Flash! was forgettable.

Those games that came first, but didn't end up influencing a plethora of other games made gamers say: "New idea, yes. But needs a lot more work to be fun." Hence why nobody (gamers, journalists, developers) says about Vanquish that it is like kill.switch, instead everyone refers to it as a GeoW on speed or something like that.

Something that is unique is not necessarily defining or redefining its genre. Fire Emblem features permanent death of defeated characters, but how many other SRPGs do that as well? Nearly none. That means perma-death is a unique element of FE, but not genre-defining. Just like Killzone's weight system is only unique, but not defining. There is no contradiction here from my side, only a lack of comprehension on your part.

Quality doesn't equal to sales? I agree and if you read through my posts in this thread you'll see that I never said otherwise. Your Wii example is quite silly, because I've never heard anyone saying that high sales equal best technology. I doubt you did, but really, it doesn't matter.

I very well know what diverse means. In theory, a diverse userbase would allow games of many different types to become huge hits, right? So shouldn't a 2D platformer, one of the most popular genres in gaming's existence, be able to hit five million even on the PS3? In reality, the PS3's userbase isn't that much more diverse than the 360's. The top of the million sellers lists look quite similar when it comes to the genres that sell really well. And by the way, Sonic Unleashed isn't even a 2D platformer.

Me being wrong about LBP's sales didn't hurt my argument. The game selling better than I assumed only strengthens my point that most gamers aren't interested in building their own levels, hence why LBP's new thing (the extensive level editor) had little impact on the market.

If you don't want to keep this thread alive, then refrain from posting in it.

yes but gears of war copied killswitch! hence by subsituation the titles which are copieng it are actually copieng killswitch. the only reason killswitch is forgetable is because it sold less then gears, ofcourse gears was executed better, but since its no 100% original its not redifining the genra. about mario and jumpin flash, i have no idea what jumpin flash is so i cant comment on that.

killswitch was fun, the games which copied halo were fun, but they werent popular. again sales doesnt equal to quality. gears copied other games, so killswitch did get copied, but people dont talk about it because 99% of gamers dont even know what that game is.

like i said in my previous postthe element must be on a certain scale to redifine the genra, and a weight system does that. why because it has to do directly with the fundementals of the a fps games: the controls, the psychics and the gameplay. you cant turn past a 180 degree turn, you feel the weight of the gun, and it changes the strategy in the game, that is redifining the realism of fps games.

i know its silly, i took the example from the top of my head. 

lbp should be able to hit 5 million units, if their were only a couple of genras, like i it selling 5 million would mean that the userbase 14% or more, platformer lovers, but their are always haters, hence its not going to sell like that. i know that the userbase is close to the one of the 360, but titles like lbp and heavy rain woudnt have performed as well if they were on the 360, a console which is mainly shooter oriented. by looking at titles such as mw2 about 25% of the ps3 userbase love shooters, if you look at gta4 you see that 18% of the ps3 userbase like sandbox games, if you look at lbp you see that 10% of ps3 owners like 2d platformers, if you look at gow3 you see that 8 % of its userbsae like hack n slash games, looking at gt5:P 14 % of its userbase like racing games. i can go on and on, but the point is this isnt the wii, its not platformer and wii ....... love. 

also with a 37 million userbase and lots of genras not every big hit will reach 5 million, lbp is reaching 4 million and thats great considering half of the ps3 userbase consider it a kid game.

again like i said before if it wasnt for the level builder of lbp the game woudnt have the sales it has now, the level editor has an impact on the market, look at modnation racers not even 500k sales and it has more then  a million user created content.

Everyone copied everyone. Video games are just serious alterations of Pong. I mean what game lacks an opponent now?

My quick opinion, some games are first to the market (Flash Jumpin), but being first doesn't garentee sales. It's being the best that counts, and being the best for the longest. Kill-Switch was a joke game, have you two even played it? Why do you think Halo sells 5 times better then Killzone? Is it marketed that much more? Is it that much better? No! It's an old franchise, which has garenteed quality in the past, and Killzone does not prove to me that it's better. Not only must Killzone be a better game then Halo to take away some of it's game sales, but it has to be A LOT better. I am taking a risk getting Killzone, they need to show me several good reasons to do so, and by me I mean a typical Halo fan.

I mean why do you think Zelda sells so well compared to other adventure games? Shadow of the Colossus was just as good, but Zelda has established itself long before. Most people just stick with what they love.

LBP is an amazing game, but Mario is far better known, and it has been around for a long long time. New franchises often have trouble re-defining the genre, and LBP has to do A LOT more then be "as good" as Super Mario Bros to compete for sales.

I mean, I am more interested in Donkey Kong Country Returns then LBP 2, why? Donkey Kong Country was probably the best platformer ever made to me, and definatly a great game to most SNES owners. LBP is new, and hasn't proved anything. Why risk it when I know DKCR will be a great game that I know I like? I've played it before and have no reason to switch. LBP 2 has to offer A LOT more to convince me anything, and by me I mean DKC fans from the SNES era, and casual gamers who see Donkey Kong and the Nintendo logo on the back.

Just the idea, that a game I really love is having a sequel, even if it's bad, makes me want to play it. Why else did I buy Lost Planet 2? I was considering buying a Wii if Golden Sun was released onto the console because I love Golden Sun that much. People stick with what they love.