Lebanon Attacks Israel

[Slimebeast]

superchunk said:

dallas said:

superchunk said:

dallas said:

Superchunk is full of it.  His position is that the jews don't have a homeland, or if they do that it is probably not in the middle east.... 

 

Whatever. 

 

The jews and palestenians have been fighting for land for as long as we've had these two groups.  The palestenians were referred to as the "phillistines" back in the days of the bible which mentions that they were always fighting and even back then already had a very long history of conflict over land.

LOL you have no clue about history of the region what so ever or my opinion on area.

1. I never said Israel should removed. I always maintained the opposite.

2. The 'phillistines' were the people living is Gaza area and were NOT semetic (both Jews and Arabs are semetic). Historians agree that they were of mediterainian decent, probably Greek etc.

3. For hundreds of years, Jews and non-Catholic Christians lived in peace in the Muslim-Arab world as Islam during that time frame was very tolerant of other religions and allowed them to live on the rules of their faith and not Islamic rules. So long as they didn't attack Islam, Islam didn't attack them. In fact, the time frame of the greatest Jewish philosophy and growth was during Muslim held Spain, then much later in the US, etc.

but you're not directly refuting that the idea that the homeland of the jews is not in the middle east, a place that they have the right to set up according to how they want to run things.             

 

So, is should the jews have a homeland or not?  I'm not talking about pragmatic matters, but what would be the rightful thing?

Before the creation of Israel, European Jews had legally purchased land from Arab owners. This amounted to about at most 40% of the land given to them by the UN. (I'd have to get my books to recount the exact %)

On top of that, before WWI, the Zionist movement itself hadn't even decided where the homeland should be. They discussed Philidelphia as well as many parts of Africa. They chose ancient Israel once European powers began to take control of the area from the Turks as they felt they could use racism, same reason they were looking at Africa, to push their ways. On top of that the Arabs were farmers, had no militaries, no formal training whereas the Jews had European arms and were mostly in European armes. They knew they had race and might on their side.

So, should Jews have a homeland? They already had homes. They were already legally purchasing land. The only reason this became a UN issue is because they were mostly European and Europe didn't want them and Britian was getting sick of trying to control the Irgun and Stern Gang (Jewish terrorist groups, first in the region). They decided that would not be able to remove the Jews at this piont.

Britian fucked up royally in its mandate. Just as it did everywhere else it had power. They promised during WWII that any area with an Arab majority would be given to full Arab control after the war if they helped against the Turks. That happenend in every area but Palestine. Then they failed to keep the illegal migration of Jews to Palestine. Then they failed to keep tons of military equipment from being smuggled in allowing the far more advanced European Jews access to far more advance weapons than the Arabs had.

But that is all history and irrevocable. This issue now is Israel exists and continues to dehumanize their Arab neighbors as well as allow constant terrorism to exist in the settler camps. For the last few decades, the majority of Arab nations have shown their favor for peace if there is a return to the green line (the pre1967 war lines). Israel has continuously refused this. While its true Arafat had a good negotation going, neither he nor Barak would have been capable of upholding that agreement as neither populace was prepped for such conditions.

Now you have the biggest anti-Arab political powers in Israel starting to talk about full annexation of WB and giving all those Arabs in there full citizenship. I personally like the idea as a divided Palestinian state in Gaza/WB woudl never work and in the long run this would get what the Arabs really want is a Jerusalem capital and eventual majority over the lands again. Even if its under a Star of David, its still freedom and far better than the inhuman treatment they currently live with.

I get so freaking angry about this.

Look this is how Arabs view Israel. And these people they should give half of Jerusalem to. No way.