Female protagonist? What do you think?

[Helios]

Khuutra said:

Helios said:

No, that's a strawman (and that goes for you, too, Weegee).

What I am saying is that a realistic take on a male/female character takes the general characteristics of human gender roles into account.  A story does not exist in a vacum - it extends to, and is inspired by, the world, and must therefore reflect it. And, in reality, there is some difference between the men and women.

I played Odin Sphere recently; George Kitami could well be critizised in some respects, but I still think very highly of his portrayal (or rather, characterization) of women, mainly because it, on the whole, makes sense - and thematically, it is quite brilliant. I won't spoil the excellent ending, but I will say the women are women, yet in the game, one of the leading females foils the plans of her insurgent cousin; the other two break free of their respective father/grandfather's influence. A feminist creed, would you not agree?

I tend to agree with you, here, though I think it bears clarifying that an acknowledgment of certain qualities inherent to observed tendencies of either gender (or, beyond that, qualities which are considered inherent to the gender itself, like the difference between maternal and paternal love) does not preclude qualities that are considered masculine.

My favrotie example here is probably Kreia from Knights of the Old Republic II: she's an immensely maternal figure in many ways, intrinsically female in ways that will uncomfortably remind many players of their own mothers, but she's also a nihilistic embodiment of Nietzsche's rejection of man's reliance on God.

I think the message here is that it is okay to have characters like Commander Shepard, who is (mostly, excludingn how they approach romance) the same whether male or female, so long as tey do not represent the entire spectrum of female portrayals.

Gwendolyn and Oswald was one of my favorite love stories from that year, for the record.

Oh, most assuredly - it stands, for me, without saying. The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is not the precence of masculine traits, but the general lack of feminine ones (outside of a few stereotypes), in modern depictions of female characters.

I think it is unfair to bring up Kreia as an example; she makes everyone else look bad by comparsion. However, I will say that I find the fact that she is so discerning and critical of the other characters' gender roles adding something important to the game as well; not just in terms of her character, but the entire cast. Poor Atton, 'the fool dancing in your shadow'. I do not remember if she says that if you are female (likely she does), but even as a male, it functions is a comment on the conflict of the male bravado (or freedom of spirit) and subjugation towards your superiors - which, as you know, is an  essential part of Atton's character.

And I'm glad to hear you played Odin Sphere; it's a great game. I was more of a Cornelius and Velvet man, myself (maybe I just have a thing for bunnies). I'm currently playing through Final Fantasy XII (I bought a PS2 only recently) as per your general recomendation, in fact. We'll see how that turns out - I'm liking it so far.