Nintendo hate?

[Resident_Hazard]

SaviorX said:

Resident_Hazard said:

 

1)Oh easy, Tatsunoko vs Capcom.  Every single Capcom fighter has mass market appeal and are typically very high quality titles.  If this was on any system other than the Wii, million sales wouldn't be a problem. 

But then, the idea of "mass market appeal" and "quality" are highly subjective in the world of video games.  Final Fantasy XIII has received reviews in the 50's (percent wise), and up to 100.  Especially in a conversation such as this where no one will actually admit to being wrong or mistaken because personal opinion will always skew the end result.  One can argue all they want that the Tatsunoko franchise has limited appeal, but not so in Japan, and for that matter, all any gamer would normally need to hear is "vs Capcom."  Yet it's sales are pathetic, despite extremely strong reveiws, and popularity of Capcom's fighters and "versus" series. 

Yeah, the Wii has 80 games that have sold a million.  Have you ever looked at that list?  It's like looking at the N64's "top titles," it's so dominated by Nintendo it's pathetic.  You go back to the NES and SNES era, the top titles and best sellers aren't totally dominated by Nintendo, rather, they're by other publishers--which is what you find on the Xbox360 and PS3--quality games made by someone other than the in-house first party dev teams.  The bulk of the rest of the Wii best-sellers are often among it's lowest-rated, casual/party/family shlock.  Hell, Carnival Games is a million seller, and that piece of crap is damn near unplayable.  I was embarrassed for everyone in the room when my Mom brought that to my place.  Even my kid hated it (for a 6-year-old, though, he's really starting to understand taste in games. He's pretty much learned that "if it's based on a movie or TV show, it's most likely crap.) 

No one will dismiss that the Wii has a lot of million sellers.  But selling a lot of copies doesn't equate quality games, or quality 3rd party support.  Nor does it indicate that customers know a damn thing about quality video games.  Again, Carnival Games anyone?  For instance, Mario Party 8, Link's Crossbow Training, Animal Crossing, Carnival Games, Just Dance, Wii Music, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Deca Sports, Game Party, Big Beach Sports, Cooking Mama, Pokemon Battle Revolution, and of all things, Jillian Michael's Fitness Ultimatum 2009 are million sellers (among other horrors).  Yeah, the Wii has shown a skill for moving crap better than the Xbox360 or PS3 could ever hope to accomplish--but then again, people actually buy the quality titles on those systems. 

Now, for the sake of argument, I'm going to list a few games I feel deserve better sales on the Wii:

--No More Heroes 2 (hasn't even sold half the numbers of it's lower-quality predecessor)
--Red Steel 2 (nevermind that it has no multiplayer, that's just a strawman argument. Metroid Prime games did better sans multiplayer because they focused on a quality game overall)
 --Bully (sales of almost half a million aren't bad, but there are far more Wii consoles than Xbox360's out there, it should've out-performed the Xbox360, and at least matched the PS2)
--Zaxk & Wiki
--House of the Dead: Overkill (sold barely half of what House of the Dead 2 & 3 managed, and it's untold amounts more fun)
--Dead Space: Extraction (highly rated; pathetic sales compared to Dead Space, which sold a million each on the PS3 and X360)
--Okami (to be fair on this one, the Wii version appears to have outperformed the PS2 release, but seriously, the sales are kinda sad for such a loved game)
--Muramasa performed worse than it's predecessor, Odin Sphere
--Deadly Creatures, Tenchu, and Cursed Mountain, with a caveat:  None of these was perfect, and they all fell short of expectations, but they didn't fail outright and each still has promise.  I'm certain had they been released for HD consoles, they would've met with greater success.  For instance, previous, lower-rated Tenchu games handily outsold Shadow Assassins on the Wii.  And there are fewer X360's in people's homes than Wii systems. 
--Fragile Dreams (despite less-than-stellar reviews, this would've sold really well on the PS3)
--Geometry Wars: Galaxies (an extremely popular XBLA download, but fully expanded with extra stuff, multiplayer, leaderboards, options, etc--well reviewed, quality title, embarrassing sales).
--Splinter Cell Double Agent--lower reviews aside, on any other system, these things are million sellers. I don't think this exactly deserves better sales (as per it's iffy quality), but as an example of a game that sells well everywhere else.
--A Boy and His Blob (strong reviews, no sales)
--Fatal Frame.... which, granted, seems to have actually been killed by Nintendo of all companies....
--Blast Works
--The Conduit (let's face it, it's a mediocre shooter, but a fully functional one--and had it been made for the Xbox360 or PS3, it would've just been another Haze or [X360/PS3] Turok, but it also would've sold as well as those two.  Turok, for instance, averaged the same review scores, but sold far better.  Haze scored even worse, and sold even better).
--Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles (camera can be annoying, but the game is every bit as good as Umbrella Chronicles, and better in a lot of ways, but is selling far worse).

Now, no doubt any of these are debatable.  This is obviously just my opinion, needless to say, but these are games I'm pretty confident would've sold much better had they not been on the Wii or which simply deserved much better sales than they got or where other releases in the series do better anywhere else but on a Nintendo system, regardless of the relative quality. 

1) Stop right there. Marvel vs Capcom 2 only managed 240k on the PS2 and 150k on the Dreamcast. This gen, Tekken 6 hit around 800k on the 360, and 1.8m on the PS3. However, this is after Tekken 5 managed 3.66 on the PS2. The series' sales were almost cut in half.

Then you say Tatsunoko vs Capcom has pathetic sales? According to who? Last time I checked, Capcom deemed it a success, and recently its sales have been going up.Seeing as to how one TvC was released in Japan and made 100k already, it is no surprise the rerelease no less than a year later of almost the exact same thing didn't do so hot.

As for the rest of your post, I have never seen so much useless input inserted into one post. I assumed that within your wall of info, that there would be at least a modicum of actual insight. However, it is truly not, and I know you have got to be laughing while you were typing it. There is no way you can honestly believe what you typed.

Not every game needs a million to succeed PAw.

You actually made my point quite well--that this is completely subjective, and that, no matter what I do, it won't matter because there's no way you (or for that matter 99.9% of the people on the internet) would ever concede to the opinion, thoughts, ideas, or points of another individual.  It also appears that you may have dismissed my post outright without actually reading it--which I'm used to.  I write more than the average modern attention span can take in.

No, games don't need to sell a million to be successful.  But a game that sells 250k is a success?  I hardly think so.  That's what Eternal Darkness reportedly sold, and it was considered a commercial failure. 

I don't believe what I typed?  You don't think superior sequels to Red Steel and No More Heroes deserve better sales?  Really?  You believe that they deserve worse?  Or, to be more cumbersome as per this conversation, you believe that I believe they deserve worse?  That's all kinds of silly. 

Of course Capcom is going to claim a success on TvC.  To say otherwise would be to badmouth sales of a Wii game, Nintendo fans, or Nintendo; and Nintendo's seriously disturbed fans always hit the internet in droves crying foul to the hills against anyone who dares say a negative thing about anything Nintendo.  Look at the way those very fans bombarded the internet as though personally offended when one single person from Capcom claimed Street Fighter IV wouldn't fit into the system and "couldn't be played on the Wii." 

My point original point, though, remains the same.  Third party games don't sell on Nintendo systems because of Nintendo fans.  Regardless of quality of said third party games, almost without exception (Soulcalibur II being such a thing), they sell better on other consoles than on Nintendo systems. 

The guy that posted right after your post, Games4Fun, noted how many of the craptacular games I listed (with high sales) are "fun" in the views of many people.  So, again, this stuff is all subjective.  To assume that I don't believe that a solid, if imperfect game, like Deadly Creatures deserved better sales is to cast an air of either A) gross elitism or B) fanboyism to my argument, without actually acknowledging my point.  It's subjective.  If crap-scoring titles like Link's Crossbow training garner high sales and are still somehow considered "fun" by some, why is it impossible to believe that the same can't be true of a game some actual effort was applied to, such as Deadly Creatures, Geometry Wars: Galaxies, or several other of the titles I listed?  Oh wait, Link's Crossbow training is forgiven it's flaws because it has Link in it. 

My point also remains uncontested, that had some of these mediocre games (like The Conduit) been made for an HD console, their sales would've been several times higher.  It was damn near hype alone that pushed Haze so high.  And again, that game sold far better than The Conduit.