Final-Fan said:
mrstickball said:
Samus Aran said:
mrstickball said:
Honestly...
I'd take the USSR over America as to the leading reason the allies won WW2, at least in Europe, anyways. Although the USSR had some major, tragic mis-steps during the first year of the war, the fact is that the Soviets had the best weaponry (ground based, anyways) of the allies, and had the best type of economy to ensure that the Germans could be destroyed. They had the advantage of crippling winters, forced labor, and good propaganda to ensure that they could send enough people to die for the homeland.
Had it not been for Stalin's incompotence during the first year or two, the USSR would of made even more mincemeat of the Germans. Fortunately for the USSR, Stalin was not as incompotent as Hitler was, which worked in the Soviet favor later on, as he delegated more authority to his commanders.
To further this notion, just look at Operation Unthinkable. It was the post-WW2 plan of continuing the war against the Soviets until we took Moscow. Guess what? We didn't do it because we would have lost against the reds. Scary stuff, but true. That is why I'd take the Soviets over the US in the war. |
You make a good point, but my post was more directed towards world war I then world war II.
Yeah, a direct war against the USSR would have been dangerous at that time although the USSR lost MASSIVE lives during WW II and USA/UK did not. But then again, Russians have the big advantage of their massive cold land and lack of empathy towards their people.
Hitler should have never broken his non-aggression pact with Stalin in 1942. He should have kept the focus on Britain and bomb the British radar systems. In 1941 the only nation still at war with Germany was Britain. If he didn't start a second front(Didn't he learn anything from WWI lol?) he would have defeated GB eventually. USA intervention would have been totally useless if Great Britain was defeated thus Hitler would have won the war.
I seriously don't get why Hitler even tried(more space for his Aryan race is bullshit reason), if even Napoleon couldn't bring the Russians on their knees then how will an incompetent fool like Hitler do it? He should have just stayed out of war and let his Generals do the strategic warfare.
No one could stand up against Germany without allies during both world wars. I think that's pretty impressive for one country(with no real allies). Italy sucked as an ally and Japan and Germany never had a common strategy which was a BIG factor on why they lost WWII.
But do you think D day would have succeeded without the USA? I think not and that was an important factor in deciding the war. As the second front was finally opened which Stalin asked so long for. British land-army was/is not really impressive then.
edit: lol my post sounds as if I wanted a German victory. Rather not Oo
|
Oh, I understand. I've looked and looked and looked into various WW2 theories.
The fact is, Hitler could of won WW2 in 1,000 different ways. The problem was that Hitler was simply insane. He demanded tactical control of German forces, yet had no real tactical insight to ensure that what the army did was the right thing to do.
The march on Stalingrad is probably the prime example of both Hitler and Stalin's idiocy - Stalin ordered his troops never to retreat, and many died. When they finally fell away into Stalingrad proper, Hitler ordered his forces to take the city of his namesake simply to be a moral victory...
In the end, the USSR won, and began the chain of events to drive the Germans out of the USSR.
I think that was the major advantage with the US and British tactics - the leaders of both nations actually gave their tacticians the lattitude to win.
|
I disagree about the USSR being more important than the USA. A big reason for this is the massive support the USSR got from the USA, which obviously should be counted on the USA side. The only thing the Russians really brought to the party was lots of bodies and their awesome tanks, both of which they used badly.
I question the accuracy of your Hitler-Stalin comparison. For starters, Stalin had a habit of executing/exiling dissenters which I believe Hiter did not share. Who was really more controlling? Keep in mind the difference between Hitler's behavior through most of the war vs. the end of it.
He invaded Russia because both sides were planning to betray the other. Hitler got to it first, that's all.
More specifically on Hitler, I recently read a book that argues that he deserves more credit than he's usually given as a strategic commander. For instance, he wanted to attack France almost immediately after taking Poland, which didn't happen because his commanders resisted it because they felt they were unprepared (needing to recover from Poland), but France was even more unprepared. France would have been a lot tougher than it was except that France panicked, which made Britain panic and bail out, which screwed the French defenses, so it probably came out even with Hitler's original plan.
|
I know Hitler would have attacked the Soviet Union eventually(or the other way around) as communists and fascists are arch rivals. But it still doesn't make much sense from a strategic point of view, at least not so soon. It would have been better for Hitler to wait after the western front was over. If Germany defeated Great Britain before the USA had finished mobilising their troops(which was certainly possible) then US intervention would have been totally useless since troops would not be able to enter "Festung Europa". And lets be honest here, Germany could totally handle the USA on its own(and Hitler would probably have never attacked the USA directly as it would be too far away to control).
Even if Germany would have been weakened by the war they could still defend pretty easily from Russia. I've never seen Russia as a strong power till after world war II I guess. Sure they can defend, but when they attack its everything except impressive(Russian-Japanese wars, Caucasus wars, Napoleonic wars outside Russia(Austerlitz for example), Crimean war, etc.)
edit: I quoted the wrong post, sorry.
