Kantor said:
highwaystar101 said:
Kantor said:
highwaystar101 said:
a. Offering him money to leave makes your example far more racist than mine, because it's no longer a situation of "can you please leave, we don't want you", now it's a case of "we really don't want you here because you are related to Germans, I'll even pay you to leave".
b. So does the payment somehow justify racism? Does the payment somehow justify picking one person out because his grandparents are from another country? If I try to incite hatred to people with foreign lineage, will I get off scott free if I can say in court "yeah, I incited hatred towards this one group of people, but I also offered to pay them"?
Also, you persistently keep calling the doctor German. He's not German, he's British. It's just that he's related to Germans. Think about that for a minute. Is it right to say one British person should be asked to leave and another shouldn't?
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a) A lot more hateful. Not more racist.
b) Not at all. And you're not inciting hatred. You're not treating them any differently from an "indigenous Brit". You ask them to leave, and if they don't leave, you go back to thinking up policies on something other than immigration.
And if he identified himself as British, he'd probably want to stay. You're assuming that the doctor, because he was born in Britain, considers himself British. That's not always the case. I've met plenty of people with foreign born grandparents who don't consider themselves British.
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a) Does being more hateful make it any better? I mean it's obviously equally racist as the other scenario. I said it was worse, and in general I think that statement is true, whatever the case.
b) Inciting hatred was another, more extreme, situation I used the same logic for. My question was essentially regarding what you implied about it being better because you are offering them money for leaving, which I think doesn't make it better at all. If anything it makes it far worse.
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Whether they consider themselves British or not is irrelevant. I didn't mention it, and I'm certainly not assuming it like you say. The official stance is that they are British, and if they feel another way then so be it. It is unfair to ask one group of British people to leave based on their lineage and not ask the so called "indigenous" group.
Also, conversely to what you say, I've met people (one of my friends in particular stands out) who are extremely proud of being British, de
spite only being second or third generation British.
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a) Not better, no. Worse, much worse. Just not more racist.
b) Again, it's not better, just less racist. Less harmful to those people who are affected. Basically, there are three ways in which they could do this:
-Ask people to leave voluntarily... if they wanted to, they already would have.
-Give people an incentive to leave- this.
-Force people to leave- worst of all. Most hateful, most racist, and just terrible.
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I agree with you- many immigrants (some even first generation) do feel British. But some don't, and that's fine. I don't think they should get money to leave; I just think it's a lot better than forcing them to leave, which would be the alternative.
Of course, the whole idea of making Britain "99% indigenous British" is stupid.
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