Kantor said:
highwaystar101 said:
Kantor said:
highwaystar101 said:
How is it crap? It's bang on. The guy is being picked out for his German lineage and asked to leave. It's just plain racist. Yes he can accept it, and yes he can turn it down. But that doesn't change the fact that he's being asked to leave for having foreign lineage.
If I was having a house party for VGChartz members and you turned up, how would you feel if I asked you to leave because I found out you had some German in you? You don't have to leave, but man would you be offended by me. Most people would call my actions racist, most would call it unacceptable.
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A different example:
You're having this house party. The German doctor comes along. You say to him "Hey, how would you like £50,000 to go to your 4th cousin's party down the street? You can't come back, though. Tell his guests none of them can come either" (It's really the second part that's the disgusting one here).
He may very well say "No, I like this party, no amount of money will make me go to my 4th cousin's house, I don't know or like the guy!"
To which you'd reply "Fine, I don't really like you, but you make the party fun, so you can stay" (obviously, you wouldn't TELL him that you don't like him, though)
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a. Offering him money to leave makes your example far more racist than mine, because it's no longer a situation of "can you please leave, we don't want you", now it's a case of "we really don't want you here because you are related to Germans, I'll even pay you to leave".
b. So does the payment somehow justify racism? Does the payment somehow justify picking one person out because his grandparents are from another country? If I try to incite hatred to people with foreign lineage, will I get off scott free if I can say in court "yeah, I incited hatred towards this one group of people, but I also offered to pay them"?
Also, you persistently keep calling the doctor German. He's not German, he's British. It's just that he's related to Germans. Think about that for a minute. Is it right to say one British person should be asked to leave and another shouldn't?
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a) A lot more hateful. Not more racist.
b) Not at all. And you're not inciting hatred. You're not treating them any differently from an "indigenous Brit". You ask them to leave, and if they don't leave, you go back to thinking up policies on something other than immigration.
And if he identified himself as British, he'd probably want to stay. You're assuming that the doctor, because he was born in Britain, considers himself British. That's not always the case. I've met plenty of people with foreign born grandparents who don't consider themselves British.
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a) Yes it is more hateful. I mean it's obviously equally racist as the other scenario too. I said it was worse, and in general I think that statement is true, whatever the case.
b) Inciting hatred was another, more extreme, situation I used the same logic for. My point was essentially regarding what you implied about it being better because you are offering them money for leaving, which I think doesn't make it better at all. If anything it makes it far worse.
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Whether they consider themselves British or not is irrelevant. I didn't mention it, and I'm certainly not assuming it like you say. The official stance is that they are British, and if they feel another way then so be it. It is unfair to ask one group of British people to leave based on their lineage and not ask the so called "indigenous" group.
Also, conversely to what you say, I've met people (one of my friends in particular stands out) who are extremely proud of being British, despite only being second or third generation British.
