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crumas2 said:
The bolded statement is incorrect... at least in part. I read several British journalism reports that heavily criticized the response *before* it was determined that the man was innocent, and at least one report was specific in mentioning that firearms should not have been used. So while I agree that many citizens in the UK may not have found the use of firearms offensive, in at least one of the reports I read (and I believe it was two) the author was upset that firearms were used by the police. If you re-read my post, I said it had the UK media in an uproar over police use of firearms... I should have said it had some of the UK media in an uproar over police use of firearms. I didn't say it had the UK populous in an uproar. Sorry, I should have been more specific. I really didn't read any sort of man-on-the street interviews in those reports, so I would be just guessing at what the average Brit thought of that situation. As far as having our "guardians/protectors/overseers" with guns, but we cannot have them (I assume this is what you mean), then I guess I have to disagree with you. The reason our founding fathers in the US put that in place was so that we would not become a helpless, defenseless society subject to the whims of a tyrannical government. Government of the people, by the people, and for the people is our way. If instead you mean to say that the UK government is and always will be completely and utterly trustworthy to never abuse power, and that Americans are too lawless or irresponsible to own firearms, then I say that the first is completely wrong and the second is somewhat wrong. Governments change and can never be trusted with absolute power, while we in America do have issues with much of our culture. |
I literally couldn't agree with you any less, but I'm happy to have a mature debate about it.
I think the fact that Americans hide behind guns being 'constitutional' is ridiculous and archaic. Your country bases a fundamental law on a bit of paper that was created 200-odd years ago? Times change. We no longer live in a state of near-anarchy and we don't have to have guns in case the government goes on a bender. The government is there to protect us, to serve us, and yes, occasionally, to control us. That is inevitable. The American populace, like in any other nation, are controlled and manipulated by their government. The US people have guns, but that is still true. Guns haven't changed that - so I don't accept the argument. It isn't like the government will ever become tyrannical, either. We live in a democracy. 2010 is not 1800. Even when modern atrocities happen, guns wouldn't have helped. In Nazi Germany, if the people had had guns, would that have changed things? Not one bit. Hitler manipulated his people and gained popular support through propaganda and campaigning - he was elected legally in 1933. He still had the support of the German people through most of WW2. Guns, in such a situation, are irrelevant.
Your argument about absolute power is wide of the mark. We can, and must, trust that governments will never have absolute power or abuse it. Governments are elected in a modern democratic society. Even if, for some unknown reason, an American or British government was to start behaving tyrannically, the people owning guns would not make the situation better. It would make it much worse. A state of civil war, of lawlessness and 'every-man-for-himself' style uprising would result. There'd be riots against police and armies - we'd look like the streets of Iraq or Afghanistan. The point is though that the government will not behave tyranically, ever. They are elected, not dictators, and laws are in place to control that elected leader's power. In the UK, a law must pass through the House of Commons and the House of Lords, and approval by both of these groups is necessary before it is passed.
Guns are made for one purpose - to kill or injure. The very idea that weapons can be 'defence' is very, well, American. Give people guns, and they will kill others. Hell, the majority of shootings are by family members to each other - proof that they do more harm than good. It is also a fact that gun crime, murder and crime in general are all lower in the UK than the US, even in proportion in terms of population.
America needs to modernise, desperately. It cannot cling to a tatty old document to maintain that guns are lawful. In the UK, we have no constitution. None. We continually review our laws and update them if necessary, and America should ditch its reliance on the constitution and outlaw guns.
