The new generation of gamers are scary!

[Scoobes]

c0rd said:

Scoobes said:

c0rd said:

Okay. I haven't really followed mods since Source, so I'll concede that point.

As for the MP games only requiring programming skills, I still don't agree. All the best selling multiplayer games weren't done by simple programmers - mods like Counter-Strike are an exception, and it takes creativity for the execution. Things like map creation or new gameplay concepts have nothing to do with programming.

The best example is probably Blizzard. All their games are designed around multiplayer, yet they always put a ton of effort into music, presentation, art, sound, etc. They're one of the most consistent and respected devs in the industry, they didn't make it through with just "programming skills."

I think the problem is you only believe the art, music, story and such is what requires creativity, whereas things like gameplay mechanics can be done by programming monkeys. However, all of the innovation in the industry comes from the gameplay side, see games like Sim (anything), Civilization, Wii (anything), Zelda, and pretty much any huge arcade hit like Pac Man or Street Fighter. It takes creativity to come up with new and interesting gameplay mechanics that work.

It's essentially what makes games fun - I'd call that an art.

They have that creativity in SP modes as well though. You have a lot more to think about when designing and creating a single-player experience because as well as trying to be creative in terms of gameplay mechanics, you also have to think about the story, level design, more complicated AI routines.

Take Half-Life 2 for example, which was made as a predominantly SP game where they introduced the gravity gun (innovation), yet they had to program detailed animations to convey character emotions (Mainly Alyx- not really needed in as much detail in MP, after all, you're just gonna shoot them), AI for the soldiers, AI for the allies, the squad control system and puzzles. If they concentrated on only multiplayer they wouldn't have to think about that stuff.

In MP you have the opportunity to innovate without having to think about the above, or if you do, in less detail. As mentioned before, the main issue is with balance in MP only.

MP is not just simply about balance. The gameplay mechanics have to be perfect, fun enough to last hours, days worth of playtime. In SP modes this isn't the case (after all, you're distracted by characters' emotions).

But seriously, MP design is an art on its own. The best multiplayer games, from companies like Blizzard or Nintendo, are untouchable because nobody has the talent to dethrone them. Warcraft / Starcraft dominates the RTS genre with its multiplayer. World of Warcraft dominates the MMO scene for the same reason (it does have its lore, but it isn't the reason people are hooked). The same can be said for games like Mario Kart, Smash Bros, and Wii Sports/Resort.

Perhaps SP does have more "stuff" to think about than MP. If it's assumed that means MP is easier or requires less creativity, you may as well argue that games are harder to make than movies. Movie makers need only worry about what's on the screen, while game designers need to add player interaction on top of that.

... You know what, if you're not convinced, I'm not going to push this further. I just don't understand how anyone can possibly agree with the statement below which I took issue with:

MP is soulless and can be done by almost everyone, but creating a good story with deep characters filled with astounding music and good voice actors is the hard part of a game.That's art. MP is not art.

This is someone valuing the cinematic aspects of games above all else. Once upon a time, games did not have voice actors, stories, deep characters, or (if you go far back enough) even music. There were still great games in this era. I refuse to believe that these games were "soulless and can be done by almost everyone." Shigeru Miyamoto and Will Wright are probably the most revered developers in the industry, and it has nothing to do with the elements given above.

Games do not need to imitate movies to be considered an art.

I don't agree with it in it's entirety. Just the point that creating a good SP campaign is harder than creating a good MP game. I think this is also part of the reason some devs prefer to develop MP specific games. It's less to think about (shorter campaign, less story, less set-pieces, less room for AI mess up), allowing you to concentrate on perfecting a single aspect.

And I don't agree that you don't need to worry about gameplay mechanics in SP mode. It doesn't matter if the game is SP or MP, if the game mechanics are crap, the game is crap. In MP, you need the balance and the mechanics. In SP games you need them and a whole lot more. You mention old games and yes, they were fun simply due to the mechanics, but also when story driven (even just a little story) games did start to come out (and even really simple concepts from Zork to the original Zelda) they really stood out in the market.

You mention Will Wright and Miyamoto, butthey haven't concentrated solely on MP or renegated SP to play second fiddle to the MP aspect of their games. Take Miyamoto's games, a lot of his games he has to think about producing amazing puzzle based levels which the player has to figure out how to navigate. If we look at MP only games, a lot of them concentrate on all vs all, or team vs team. He wouldn't need to setup any puzzles or challenging levels, as the other players produce the challenge.

Co-op on the other hand is very different as it incorporates aspects of both, and is arguably harder.

Finally, yes, I think games are harder to make than movies, at least the big budget ones like Assassins Creed II, Uncharted 2, certain RPGs etc. You have to have actors playing the part (same as movies), animate them, create stories (and in certain games with multiple branches in them), setup game mechanics etc. Not saying its like that for all games; small indie devs show you can concentrate on game mechanics and originality to sell your game.