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Gamerace on 06 January 2010
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Davey1983 said:
Gamerace said:
Davey1983 said:
Gamerace said:
I agree. The core gamers on Wii have moved on to HD where all the Core games are. They may have a Wii but they'll buy NSMBW over RE:DC for Wii. Why wouldn't they? They have RE5.

I do believe '09 will be the death of 'core' games on Wii. None have sold impressive numbers and it's just easier for publishers to focus on the core market on HD where their core games sell rather than try to adapt them to a relatively unknown expanded audience on Wii.

To create mass success on Wii will require a radically new way of thinking for most publishers and developers. I just hope some are up to the challenge, because HD development is a losing game.

I disagree with this.  I don't buy the idea that so- called 'core' gamers have left the Wii audience.  Name one third party 'core' (I hate that term, by the way) title that was released only on the Wii that would have sold well on the HD twins. 

I can't think of one either.

 

This is the old blame the audience tatic (and usually done by companies before they go out of business).  If third parties would release good games on the Wii they will sell.  Resident Evil 4, despite being a port of an old game, sold over a million copies.  What I find interesting is that on-rail shooters are now considered 'core' titles.  Really?  Port over Resident Evil 5 with RE4 controls and I would bet that the game would get over a million sales easily.  Want Dead Space to sell on the Wii?  Create an actual third person shooter, remove the ridiculous amount of cut scenes, and it would have gotten many more sales (sorry, nobody bought the 'directed first person experience' lie EA tried shoveling). 

Nintendo has released some so-called core games, and all of them have done well (not system mover well, but well enough that sequels are coming or being talked about).  Punch-Out is nearing 1 million, Metroid Prime 3 sold a million, Galaxy has sold 8 million. 

Let's look at other good 'core' games that have released on the Wii:  COD:WaW has sold over a million, and COD:MWR is on track to sell a million. 

Sorry, but this idea that the Wii is 'only for families', and that 'core gamers have moved onto the HD twins' is complete BS that third parties have come up with to not take the Wii seriously (why when Resident Evil 4 and RE:DC both sold over a million that only more Rail shooters were made?-- Why didn't some third party also make more third person shooters?  It is because third parties do not want to take the Wii seriously.  It has nothing to do with 'the audience'-- the audience has already shown that they want games like Resident Evil 4!).  If Red Steel 2 and MH3 both end up being good titles, and they bomb on the Wii, then I might start to believe this argument. 

There is a core market on Wii.   It's referred to as the 'after market'.   The people who buy the games only after they have dropped in price because they're not serious enough to sit down and play out the whole game but they might have fun with it for a while so it's a good value for them at $20 but not at $60.   Also multi console owners but I already touched on that.

CoD is a pathetic example.   I'm sorry.  Saying the biggest name in gaming, with ZERO competition in it's field can sell a measly 1m units in a years time on a system with a base practically the size of 360's and PS3's COMBINED is not defending the Wii.   It's cursing it!    By that standard the only other game that could hope to break a million would be Grand Thief Auto.        If CoD which will sell 10m on 360 and 6-7m on PS3 can only break 1 on Wii  (even with simultaneous release and TV ads like WaW) then how can a game like RE5 which only sells about 5m on 360 hope to do more than 500k on Wii??       

Wii succeeds in other areas though and massive success not possible on HD consoles are possible on Wii.    Wii has more million sellers than the competition but with games like DDR, Hanna Motana, Lego, Ben Ten, Sonic, SW Clone Wars, fitness titles etc. which would never succeed on the HD consoles (at least not sell millions).  

There is money to be made on Wii.   TONS.  But not with the old manner of thinking.   Wii has a huge female base and even to this day, not one single 3rd party has figured out how to sell them what they want or even what they want.    Wii has a ton of old school / PC gamers which again is underserved.   HoTD:O was a good idea but making it so potty mouthed no guy can play it around their wife or kids was just dumb and another example that 3rd parties are out of touch with the Wii market.

 

With respect to you, Gamerace, I believe you have missed my point (could easily be my fault, I have a hard time being concise and to the point).

 

My main point:  third parties have never taken the Wii seriously and is only using the 'audience' excuss to ignore it further.  No one, and I mean no one, can name a single third party exclusive that would have sold well on the HD twins.

You claim the core market is the 'after market', but how do you know that (this was my biggest question when I read your response)?  Where are the Modern Warfare's (the breakout game for console Call of Duty games), the Grand Theft Auto's, or the Final Fantasy's?  I will tell you:  Wii gets a two year old port for Modern Warfare (with no advertising, I might add, but still on track to sell over a million), no GTA's, and no FF (Wii gets a crappy spinoff of FF, Crystal Chronicles).  You point out that only selling 1 million for a COD game is not that great.  Perhaps, but that is still $50 million dollars in revenue that is being ignored and I can't understand why any company would not want that.  All that would be required for MW2 to be released on the Wii would be a downgrade in graphics and take the control set up from WaW or MWR and put them on MW2 for Wii.  Yes, it would cost some money, but I can't believe it would cost that much.  The only reason that MW2 is not on the Wii right now is because of some (actually, I would say most) poeple in the industry hate the Wii.

 

Off topic point:  I wouldn't consider COD to be the biggest name in gaming (but I get your point, it is a huge series-- now bigger than GTA, FF, etc.).  I believe that Mario takes that crown (and the Wii series has several games that have outsold the COD games), especially considering how NSMBWii looks like it is going to outsell MW2 (I am not saying MW2 is a bad game-- I actually enjoyed it, but I am pointing out how Mario, which released a week later, is looking to outsell 'the biggest game ever'). 

 

Another quibble:  of course Wii owners will not pay $60 for a new game, Wii owners are use to paying $50 for a new game.  Also, the idea that Wii gamers will not buy games for full price is just wrong.  Nintendo games, which sell the most on the Wii, retail for $50 (Twilight Princess, a launch title, still retails for $50).  If the quality is there, and the game is something they are interested in, Wii gamers will pay full price.  Wii gamers, in general, are still waiting for a third parties to release something worth full price. 

 

I'm willing to bet that Red Steel 2 and Monster Hunter 3 will be hits when they are released in the West.  Why?  Even though they are 'core' titles, they are well made and are tapping into what Wii gamers want:  arcade like action (assuming they don't put many cut scenes in them).

I agree somewhat that old thinking has to change, but it does not neccessarily involve figuring out 'what woman want' (hell, if I knew that I would never get into another argument with my wife).  People bought the Wii for motion controls (not waggle) and IR controls.  Red Steel 2 looks to fill that promise, and MH3 appears to have that arcade like action.  Women are NOT a new market, women use to play games all the time--I played the original Super Mario Bros. with my mother all the time.  I now play NSMBWii with my mother and sister.  I play Wii Sports with my wife and sister.  My wife and I take turns playing Zelda games.  

 

We don't know how these good third party titles will sell on the Wii because third parties do not bring these games to the Wii and then they claim that these games won't sell on the Wii because things like rail shooters are not selling.  Please.

Sorry for the tardy response.

3rd parties definitely did not take Wii seriously at first except Ubisoft which had two decent launch titles and followed with a dozen more (many rushed).   So at first, aside from Red Steel, this was true.    However many solid 3rd party core games did come to Wii - Godfather, Scarface, Bully, Splinter Cell: Double Agent, Prince of Persia, RE4, Manhunt, Tomb Raider Anniversary and many more.   Yes these were PS2 ports but most were also ported to 360 and in every case the 360 versions sold better (even considering userbase) despite the Wii versions being superior in some cases.  They were also unfairly rated poorly because the gaming press were accustomed to old play styles and didn't take to innovative controls.   It's not uncommon for some to complain that it's too hard to aim on Wii compared too dual analog.   That's stupid of course IR is much more precise but not to someone with years of experience with dual analog.  Wii was selling to Nintendo core and people sold on Wii Sports.    The core base was not flocking to Wii.   RE4 likely sold so well because RE was long a Nintendo exclusive franchise and long loved by the Nintendo core that bought Wii's for Zelda, etc.

This did not encourage 3rd parties to develop for Wii but many proceeded anyway but solid games take time so in wasn't until this year we started seeing this.   Now in '09 we've had Tenchu, Rygar (I know), HoTD:O (excellent), MadWorld (excellent), Dead Space: E (excellent), RE: DC (excellent), RE:Archives, RE:Zero, Silent Hill (which is a very solid game  not a spin-off or 'wiified' version and there's no excuse for this not selling well), Cursed Mountain, Little King Story, Conduit, Need for Speed: Nitro (another really good solid effort), F1 (also good), CoD:MWR and lastly FF:CC:CB (continuing the CC series from the Gamecube days and another exceptional effort) all of which have failed to produce anything close to impressive numbers.   Yes, CoD will likely sell a million, not impressive considering the title and the user base.   

As for your idea of RS2 and MH3 selling because they are giving Wii owners arcade like action - this did not work for DS:E, RE:DC, FF:CC:CB or NFS:N which all had the same idea.   I don't see why that would change for those two.

Red Steel MAY sell well for novelty reasons, like the first, if it's fun, accessible and easy enough for anyone to play.  This worked for Star Wars Clone Wars Lightsaber Battles at any rate.   MH3 MAY sell well if Nintendo can sell the social aspect.   Arcade action may help but it won't guarantee sales.

What people on this site like to ignore is that developers are not making these kinds of decisions blindly.  They were in '06 and '07 but now they have reams of market research and history to go on.  They know more about the make-up on the Wii userbase then anyone here.   They just don't know what to do with it.  

As for women playing Nintendo games, that was my point.  Nintendo has always made games for everyone.   Once upon a time, all developers did but that was long ago and they have lost touch.      

Oh, and I said $60 cause in Canada here it's sometimes $60 for a Wii game (depending on US exchange rates and the title).  No question Mario is still king on the game castle and Wii games (except Music) have all proven immensely popular.

Re: After market - that's been mentioned by some publishers based on their research.  I'm too tired and lazy to find a link but I'm not just pulling that out of my arse.   You'll notice there's a trend now to drop the price from $50 immediately to $20 or less  (Indiana Jones, Spyborgs) to target that market.  And some titles like Blazing Angels have had tremendous legs at that price point but flopped at $50.