Why do people vote for Hilary and Obama?

[Final-Fan]

famousringo said:

Kasz216 said:

 

Mccain supports the War in Iraq because we are there now. That's what he's always said... and he's right.

It would be unfair for us to leave a war WE started... to let the people who didn't ask us to start the war in the first place kill each other.

You can say "but but... Bush started it" but guess what. Bush was made president. So that makes Iraq our responsibility now. Just because your a democrat and a republican made a decision doesn't mean you can pull out and wash your hands clean of the situation. Anything that happens after a pull out of troops is as much on your and my hands as it is Bush's.

It won't be "but there terrorists will attack us." or some BS like that but it WILL be bloody civil war and likely genocide... possibly followed by Turky and Iran invaded and splitting the country in half.

How are countries supposed to trust us when whenever we make a mistake we can pull up and leave in 4 years by going "Whooops that was that other political party... not us! Not our problem."

America uses blaming the other party for all the mistakes as a "get out of jail free card" and I'm sure other countries are sick of it by now.

Well said, and I agree with you. You broke it, you bought it. Trying to patch things up is the responsible thing to do.

But I think there's a very important question which has to be asked. Is any progress being made? Is the US actually bringing peace, stability, and a representative government to Iraq and the broader region? Or is it actually one of the obstacles impeding the achievement of these goals?

If this is the case, and if changes in methods, tactics, or institutions can't reverse the trend, wouldn't a pullout be the least-worst scenario for all involved?

I don't have the answers to these questions, and I'm not trying to place any leading suggestions about the problem, but I do think that decision-makers should keep these questions, and the possibility of a pullout, in mind when considering the problems in Iraq.

There are at least two other reasons as well, in my mind. 

1.  A threat -- not a bluff -- of pulling out may get certain factions to finally take things seriously, instead of clawing for power safe in the knowledge that our troops are going to keep things to a dull roar. 

2.  There comes a time when, whether we made the mess or didn't, the people there will have proven that most of them are utterly unwilling to help us help them.  We can't do this forever. 

And besides (@ Kasz216's post), most Democrats don't propose a complete withdrawal very soon at all.  Instead they propose that we draw down from an occupying police force trying to defend and pacify all the territory we hold sway over to a strike force that will simply hit aggressors whenever they reveal themselves, while keeping a tight hold on a few key areas.  At least, that's my understanding; I freely admit that I'm not very knowledgeable of the various Democratic candidates' proposals.