BBC: Horizon - Consciousness and free will

[Final-Fan]

Slimebeast said:

Final-Fan said:

Slimebeast said:

Rath said:

What slimebeast is saying is that it isn't random, it just appears random because we can't see what is causing it. Like how a coin flip appears random but is in fact if you look at the underlying details it is bound to end up one way from the moment it is flipped.

I disagree with him, but that is his what I think he is saying.

Correct.

Maybe all materia is made up of strings on the lowest level and there's 11 dimensions of spacetime, and events on that lowest level govern the behaviour of the particles on the atomic level.

What's your point?  I mean, if the randomness is coming from somewhere, what does it matter whether it's "ordinary" quantum theory or the nth dimension strings or the Flying Spaghetti Monster that is providing the apparent randomness seen in quantum particle behavior, for the purposes of this discussion?  

See my above post for details.   

Not much perhaps. I dont remember how we got into this.

You said:  "I don't believe in the concept of randomness. Is there anything in our world that has been proven to behave randomly?

"In quantum physics I believe the obsrved particles acting what looks to be randomly (or particle reactions that seem to have certain % chances to have different outcomes) is actually caused by unknown factors."

I took that to mean that you thought everything was deterministic, and randomness was only seeming randomness due to unknown factors.  

So if quantum physics is known to have true randomness (proven per your question), it doesn't matter where exactly that randomness originated for that to be incorrect.  

I believe this was in relation to CrazyHorse's assertion that even if we lack free will our choices aren't necessarily predetermined (random element can leave possibilities open).