Why Xbox Live is Worth the Price

[Final-Fan]

Lord Flashheart said:

Final-Fan said:

He left out the first four quotes, which frankly make you both look pretty bad.  He shows a temper and admits to making sockpuppets (I think) and also to basically posting the original remarks to "get even" with people posting negative info about GT5. 

On the other hand, you show your own bad side, and make some ridiculous attempt to use strict logic to condemn a slogan in mockery of what you presume JEDE3 is doing, but that was actually a really pointless rant of yours, which did not tie in to any specific claim of where JEDE3 acted like that.  I don't see you on his back for his "bad side" I'm using strict logic? He asked me if he was a troll or not it had to be one or the other? It doesn't work like that and if he doesn't know it then you should educate your firend. I repsonded to his pointless claims that a car in a computer game with "cosmetic only" switch on should crumple like a car in real life being driven into a wall. It's a game. On forza 2 if you have it set so the dameage impares performance that car would be out of the race like he wants so it will be like that in this one. Not a rediculous attempt at logic just basic observations. His crash test video was a rediculous attempt at logic. A computer game with cosmetic on should be like real life? Good one. Doesn't sound so much like a  pointless rant but you would've seen that if you wasn't so desperate to prove me wrong and stick up for your friend.

(Not to mention the fact that you practically contradict yourself:  'Your objection that it's not realistic is faulty because you're being insanely strict in your consideration of "realistic"!' vs. 'Your objection that it's not realistic is faulty because it's only unrealistic because it's on cosmetic mode and it would look silly if you were driving something with no front end!')Do you know what contradiction is? We was refering to the devs claims it will be the most realistic driving sim. You're taking the word realistic to mean the same as him. You're seeing alot of things his way and ignoring common sense. It will be the most realistic driving sim doesn't mean it has to be like real life. It means it has to be more realistic than the other games out there which by default will make it the closest to real life. If you expect it to be perfect when you have the options to make the game easier turn low then I geuess you sit there playing games commenting on how that's not how it is in the real world.

JEDE3's original post, while made in perhaps a poor spirit, was on topic and not (IIRC) particularly inflammatory in substance, any more than ANY reasonable criticism might be considered "inflammatory" by thin-skinned fans.  As for his tone, it is pretty heated, but then so is yours.  (Actually, you are probably more arrogant/condescending than hotheaded, but your tone is at least as inflammatory as his.) 

To get back to the heart of this little side venture:  you claim that your main argument in the post in which you misread JEDE3's post remained sound, and are apparently claiming that that main argument was that he was trolling.  I think this is a bit rich coming from someone who recently claimed he kept asking for more and more evidence just to see how long the other guy would oblige, and taunted him for how long he did so, but whatever.  Not my fault he's a dancing monkey. The main point was the lie that that I called him a biased fanboy troll or the spin that when I suggested he say what he means he tries to twist it to be something bad.

You:  "Looks like you're seeing things your way again. The title to the message telling me why you got banned was "been banned for calling nightsurge a douche" now it's because you mentioned a game in another games thread!?! Do you constantly lose grip on reality?
"You criticised the damage graphics in forza then claimed you meant that both Forza and GT aren't realistic. without mentioning GT so I said if that was the point then you should mention GT as well or it looks like you're trolling."

I'll tell you right now, the first part stands out a lot more than the second (what with all the exclamation points), but let's go with your claim that the second part was actually more important.  I'll admit that JEDE3's sanity does not directly bear on whether he's trolling when he talks about Forza's drawbacks without mentioning GT5's, so the fact that your first argument was obliterated does not invalidate the second.Here's part of the original comment "Dude, that's how he is. Don't argue with him. He called me a biased fanboy troll because I didn't mention GT5 in a forza 3 thread. When I told him people get banned for mentioning another game in a specific games thread he basically told me I should have done it anyway to not look so biased." He claimed people get banned for mentioning GT but there was plenty of references to gt in that thread with little to no bans and saying what he 'claimed' he meant wouldn't have got him banned so he should've said it instead of leaving a comment which does not in any way get his point or intentions across. I never called him a biased fanboy troll for not mentioning GT in forza. I said he was biased for claiming he also meant GT when I challenged him on that comment. See he's seeing things his way and they way you're under his thumb so are you. So his

No, what invalidates it is the idea that he has to end all criticism of Forza 3's damage simulation with adding something about how GT5's is also bad, even if the thread is only about Forza.  Clearly that's a silly argument and you ought to be ashamed for claiming that he should do so to avoid the appearance of trolling.  Are you serious? If he means forza and GT in a comment then he should make sure everyone knows he meant forza and GT. He claims after the fact that he 'meant' GT  but there is nothing in your friends original comment to imply that. He commented about a video of forza yet meant GT as well? Did you see a clip of a car hitting the wall at 70 in GT in that thread to show he was talking about GT as well? I never said he has to end all critism's of forza's damage with adding something about GT only when he means forza and gt. IS that unreasonable? Why do you have a problem with that? It's basic. If you talk about something you include it in your comment.He's taking my suggestion that in that one comment if he meant GT as well he should say GT (makes sense right?) and doing what he does which is to take the comment twist it and try to use it agaisnt me. He made a stupid remake which was false (why don't you call your friend out on that?) That I claimed every comment should end with a reference to GT and you took that as gospel and now trying to use it against me to defend your friend. Please show me where I said all comments to do with Forza damage should include GT? You can't
My comment isn't invalidated yours is.

You harp on and on endlessly about the one (admittedly clearly wrong) claim he made that 'his point was that both Forza and GT5' have this problem.  I am willing to believe that he misspoke and meant to say that that's what his POSITION is, not what his POINT was, since he clearly should have known that his own post, which he just wrote, did not actually mention GT5.  Yet I admit I made a mistake and it's used to discredit everything I say but he makes a mistake and refuses to admit it and no-one does anything? He was commenting on the video which is a video of Forza yet you think he meant Gt as well? He was very specific in what he said, what it was in reference to and where he said it. Also it's you two that keep bringing it up, I just respond.

As for your question "Why bring GT and forza into it when we was talking about why he was banned?": 

The answer is simple:  because that was the subject of the one out of 70 comments that you were apparently able to find objectionable content in.  (To support your claim that he went around spreading FUD or whatever.)  We was talking about his attitude, the swearing and insulting arrogant behaviour that got banned then he turns it to something else. What does the Forza thing have to do with him getting banned for calling someone a douche in a completely different thread.  Also it seems others on here have posted other comments of his (I couldn't be arsed to look myself as he just claims its out of context) so what does that say?

As for "If he meant something why didn't he say it?" (referring, I presume, to what I spoke of three paragraphs up): 

It's not like you're Shakespeare yourself, so it may behoove you to not cast stones from your glass house.  Wow, the most rediculous comment yet. Are you Shakespear? so how can you comment? You don't have to be Shakespear to be able to say what you meant. It's probably the first rule in saying what you want others to hear if you want them to understand what youmean.

As for "If he sticks to Sony threads then why is he in this one?": 

I think it is reasonable to not assume he meant absolutely 100% of the time, especially since he was responding to the accusation/implication (I forget which) that he went around the MS forums a lot spreading FUD.  1 thread out of a dozen spent in MS-land is not supportive of that. And yet I say he's biased and was trolling, refer to earlier, and that's supposed to mean that I think every single comment is pure trolling to him. Why don't you get onto your friend for that? He works in absolutes when he feels like it but when the finger is pointed to him it's 'Well I meant  this'

Oh and when I was talking about him trolling in this thread I meant

JEDE3 said:

Lord Flashheart said:

Adjudicator said:

ameratsu said:
All I want to do is play the games I paid for online for free. Since Microsoft nor third parties are providing dedicated servers for me to play on, I fail to see why it's a paid service. Many free online PC/PS3 games have dedicated servers. All this fun stuff you guys are mentioning (cross game chatting, netflix, etc) should be gold only features. I see no reason to pay microsoft to use my own internet connection.

Exactly what I've been trying to say all thread long.

I don't seem to be getting through so i'll give up.

But then you buy wow and have to pay...

I don't seem to be getting through either.
lets both give it up.

maybe if you made a good arguement...

Not very friendly. Could be seen to be innflammatory. Then the one I misread. Slagging me off to other people. Whats you're take on that? Other than the response I made above we hadn't said anything else to each other yet he comes in here to have a go at me. Pretty trollish to me.

Also you'll notice he comes in and first thing he says is a comment aimed at me. Now he's claiming I'm following him around and you are claiming I'm latching onto him when he comes in MS threads. I think this shows he's following me and making the first moves. Latching onto me rather than talk about the topic at hand but you keep seeing things the way he tells you.

(1) Did you or did you not bother to read where I said "you both look pretty bad"?  
-I'll address the damage thing in (2).  
-In point of fact I have never met him before this thread and I don't think we're really "friends" that quickly.  

(2) Look, all I meant is that you should make up your mind:  Is the damage in the video realistic (therefore JEDE3 is wrong), or is the damage in the video unrealistic with good reason (therefore JEDE3 is unreasonable)?  Pick a damn horse.  

(3)  "Not my fault he's a dancing monkey"?  Oh, I'll get back to that one.

(4) He gave evidence that people can get banned for bringing up GT in Forza threads which you did not dispute.  I wouldn't know, so I have to go by your failure to dispute that as evidence it may be true.  
-Although I agree that mentioning that GT has the same problem very probably wouldn't have gotten him in any trouble, it's a ridiculous thing to demand he do.  I don't think that was actually his "point", just his position and he misspoke.  
-It's true that you called him a "biased troll" for reasons other than his initial post, but I don't think JEDE3's claim was any kind of gross mischaracterization of your stance towards him.  As I said, though, I agree with you in that you didn't call him that purely because of that one post, which is what JEDE3 literally said.  
- You were saying he was biased well before the disputed claim ('I meant GT5 too') was uttered, even if you didn't use that specific word.  "So do you pick apart GT:5 with the same vigor? / No wonder why?"

(5) No, I don't in fact think his comment that mentions Forza in a Forza thread "meant" to be about GT as well.  I think his "position" is that the same objection applies to GT.  That is a question that can only be settled by asking him.  
-So, it naturally follows that IF that is true, THEN IF you continue to hold that he should have mentioned GT, THEN my objection to your demand would apply.  
-See above point for "calling him out" on misspeaking.  I don't think it would do anyone any good for me to attempt a full list of what I consider "stupid REMARKs" by you and him in these threads.  

(6)  To borrow a phrase, "ARE YOU SERIOUS?"  Your mistake does not invalidate everything you say, but it does invalidate THAT ONE ARGUMENT.  In fact it totally annihilates it.  As I've said repeatedly, unconnected arguments remain unscathed, so I don't know where you got that accusation.  

(7) "insulting arrogant behaviour"  Oho, that's rich coming from you, Mr. Dancing Monkey.  
-He brought up the "Forza thing" because it was apparently the only one of his past 70 posts you found fault with, and he considered that fact a good defense against his perception that you accused him of being in the MS forums all the time spreading FUD -- and then he said that one post wasn't FUD either.  
-What it says is that he used to be a lot worse than he has been recently.  

(8) No, I'm not Shakespeare, but I'm a better writer than you are.  For instance, take "No wonder why?" from the above quoted passage.  As written, that makes no sense.  Did you mean, "No.  I wonder why?" (rhetorically)?  Or did you mean something else, perhaps involving the phrase "No wonder"?  I don't think I have made similarly badly written posts or caused ambiguity in my meaning, but many of your posts are poorly written and several things were subject to doubt on your intended meaning, even if the difference usually wasn't critical.  So I don't think you are in a position to jump all over JEDE3's saying "point" when he meant "position" if that is in fact what he was trying to get across.  His later comments do support that interpretation and he has otherwise been consistent in that, I think.  

(9) "And yet I say he's biased and was trolling, refer to earlier, and that's supposed to mean that I think every single comment is pure trolling to him."

.... what?  When did anyone say that?  

(10) I could point out that you don't really know whether he was referring to just you or both you and Adjudicator, etc.  But that's not really important.  I'm not interested in defending every post he ever made (and for the record I doubt it's possible) -- just the accusation and discussion revolving around the Forza/GT thing.  At most, that amounts to evidence of his general demeanor, which leaves much to be desired -- but the same can be said of you.  
-You claim that it's evidence he follows you around and/or jumps on you, but really he had been making comments earlier.  Your paths just happened to cross; he would likely have made the same remark to anyone else who made an identical post.  
-If you had a shred of self-restraint or the superiority you claim to enjoy over him, you would have either ignored him or made a small comment along the lines of "grow up".  Instead you went on the attack, insulting him with "You can talk. / Well thats all you do just not successfully", which I have to say is a pretty awkward and dumb-sounding put-down.  (Your final comment, "Stop trolling", was fairly appropriate, and would have been a decent post if it was all you said.)
-If anything you two seem to be quite good at egging each other on, with his hotheaded comments and your arrogant remarks.  That's why it's hilarious that you talk about his inflammatory posts while being blind to your own or perhaps just not caring about the hypocrisy.

(10B) Tell you what though -- I'll toss you a freebie.  You're right, JEDE3's at fault in this thread for starting things with you.  You just apparently have such a short memory span you forgot about it.  Way back on the first page you took a cheap shot at Feylic and JEDE3 popped out of the woodwork to say how you were rude to more than just him.  That got you going back at him, etc. etc.  That's your problem overall, I think -- even when you're right your arguments fail to support your point.