Theft is a very forced metaphor for software piracy

[Slimebeast]

Katilian said:

Slimebeast said:

I'd still say that murder is wrong (from the 'outside observer' perspective). I guess this is the example which makes you believe in absolute morals, because most people would still instinctively reply that murder is wrong even if 100% of people thought it is right - the 100% of people in favor of murder just don't know better.

This is much like morals in politics work. Politicians believe they have higher standards and don't let the majority of the people simply decide what to do. Every opinion is not equally valid, whatever you hear someone claim in their hypcrisy.

But, how are you basing your arguments btw? You aren't suggesting that moral issues are only up to a majority vote, do you? Because all other arguments would then be pointless.

There are no outside observers though. All humans (you know, the things that have to exist for morals to exist, since we define them) think murder is right. While we are instinctly built not to kill each other at random this has nothing to do with right and wrong, but is important for the continued survival of the species. If we killed each other at random, we would not exist for very long, but that in itself isn't wrong either.

I suppose the best example without a majority is this: Lets say you consider murder wrong, and I consider murder right. Neither one of us is incorrect in our moral beliefs, because thats exactly what morals are, believe in the rights and wrongs of actions. Now we might decided between ourselves that not killing each other is a benifit to both of us (so law is created), but that doesn't change either of our moral standings, nor how correct/incorrect our moral standings are.

And no, moral issues aren't just up to a majority vote (though society is definitely a major factor). Your original comment was along the lines of "piracy = stealing, because calling stealing shows how immoral it is". I'm suggesting that piracy isn't as immoral (or perhaps it is even moral) as what is associated with the word stealing, to the general public/society, because in my experience, most people pirate significantly more than they steal (whether it be a service or tangible object), thus using the word steal is still inappropriate (both in definition and morallity).

There is an outside obsverver if you believe in absolut or universal morals. Imagine there's a God or aliens in outer space. What treatment would we expect from highly advanced aliens if they came here? etc

And the evolutionary argument has it's weaknesses (behavioural codes and rules through instincts "is important for the continued survival of the species"). How do you explain the idea that's speading all over the world that everyone is equal? And the future extension to rights for animals that we will definately see in the coming century or two.

I think this is too off-topic now though.