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highwaystar101 on 06 July 2009
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Wind Shlavitor said:

I think it's foolish to right-out believe or get on any one side. Obviously ID does not have enough evidence, and Evolution Theory is reaching pretty far to try and explain things we simply can't.

Yes there is variance, mutation, as well as survival of the fittest, but to what extent? Were you there when life started? Have you observed the the evolution of one species into another? No, so stop being so arrogant about your so-called evidence. We don't know how life started, all you can do is speculate with what little you do know to make it seem like it supports such assumed ideas.

Truth is, we don't know. Not saying it won't be discovered in the future or when we die. But don't step further than what is clear, and leave the rest as speculation. Why believe something you haven't experienced? On top of that, History has shown deceit in science and religion constantly, so I don't see why it would be any different.
Humans aren't that smart, that they can understand everything there is in the universe, and I think it's that weakness that drives people to want to be able to know.

My verdict: Don't believe everything you hear. Check it out for yourself. You can have your penchants, but it's foolish to overstep your personal experiences and understandings.
There is not enough evidence to support 100% of evolution and atheism, only certain obvious parts, regardless of how 'convinving' or 'factual' some say some is. ID is no better, because it clearly has almost no concrete evidence.

Solution? Agnosticism.

ps- my first post. :P Hope Im not offending anyone.

First off, welcome to the site

Secondly, No we wont see a species go through all the transitional phases into another in a single life time. Humans can't live the thousands of years to witness every transitional phase in evolution. What we can do though observe very large transitions throught fossil records, it doesn't take much to find these changes, the evolution of the dog is a good one [link]. The dog has evolved from the original species, canis luparis, 15,000 years ago into the hundreds of breeds we see today and this rapid evolution is due to domestication. We have very strong proof for this.

We can also observe small evolutions, in which small changes occur withn a few generations, if you look up the evolution of MRSA [link] you can see how one small mutation has allowed for one species of bacteria to thrive over others. This is a small evolution and will eventually lead tosomething completely different. An example of what will eventually occur can be seen in the 'E.coli long term evolution experiment' (LTEE) [link] which demonstrates how overten years when put in extreme environments, lot of little changes in resistance to harsh conditions can change the entire species over time. This is proof that what is called "macroevolution" by creationists is actually just the accumulation of many smaller evolutions over an indefinate period.

It's silly to suggest we can't observe such a large change directly in our lifetimes because that would require a dog evolving into, say, a bear in three or four generations, it just wont happen, but if we look back through fossil records and co-ordinate it with our observable evolution tests it is simple to see that large scale evolution has occurred in many groups of animals.