Gallup: More Americans “Pro-Life” Than “Pro-Choice” for First Time

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Rath said:

luinil said:

And this is where the real clash of Pro-life and Pro-Choice lies. When do we give the baby the right to life. The Pro-Life group believes it starts at Day 0. Several of the reasons they believe that are founded in religion, to be sure, but there are non-religious Pro-Lifers as well.
The Pro-Choice group believes it starts sometime after Day 0. They don't all agree on when life starts (nor do the "self-titled" Pro-Lifers either I might add), but they believe that up until that point, it should be the choice of the woman to abort.

The reason the clash is so vehement, lies in the fact that we are talking about life and the ending of life, and ostensibly what many consider murder. The view that life begins at Day 0 would tend to see abortion as murder and such a heinous crime, because the baby has no chance to defend itself, and can make no choices about it's own future. Therefore the people who can do something should.

The question I must ask is this, do you know for 100% certain that the baby doesn't do what you think beforehand, or maybe your definition of when life begins is based on faulty assumptions? Could you be wrong? What if life really does begin at Day 0?

My take on those questions is this, Where else can we deem it the creation of life, and therefore a human? imho there is no other option. Take it for what you will.

Actually my position grants protection before any of the signs of being a person are truly there. Twenty six weeks is when the thalamus starts to develop, this is almost certainly required to feel pain.

Other more complex things like emotions and thoughts do not come until later, self awareness doesn't come until some months after birth.

So given that I have taken the earliest possible sign of the first of many things that in my opinion constitute a person I am confident beyond reasonable doubt that the fetus isn't a person beforehand.

But you do recognize that the fetus/embryo is alive and that abortion is therefore murder yes?  I mean murder of life, regardless of whether it would/should be classified as human.  That is what is taking place in an abortion...or would you disagree with that?

Our view on the issue is very similar (my cutoff is week 12 shortly after the end of the embryonic period), and I think we agree in basic premise if not specifics so I'm not attacking that.  But I do think pro-choice means accepting murder to facilitate free choice no matter how you view it. 

I only ask because many people who are pro-choice revolt at such a statement and I think it is an irrefutable fact of the matter that a living organism separate and distinct from the mother is being destroyed in the name of her choice. It after all has a unique set of DNA and could not be considered a part of the mother's body any more than a disease or parasite would.

PS - I consider myself both pro-choice and pro-life to be completely honest.  I think a woman should have the right to do what she wants with her body even if it means harming another non-human life (ie parasites, diseases, gerbils (lol), etc...), but as soon as we talk about a human life I'm vehemently pro-life. Obviously the question is "when" does that change happen. To most this is a pro-choice view and so I take the label mostly for clarity.