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akuma587 on 15 May 2009
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nordlead said:
TheRealMafoo said:
luinil said:
Mafoo, while I understand your position, I don't agree with it. Most of the more religious people would tend to think that life begins at conception. I might go so far as to say that it begins before conception,
Jeremiah 1:4-5
4 The word of the LORD came to me, saying,

5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

So... logically based on that, every life is planned and formed by God. If he "knows" you before hand, then at what point do you become a human? The only answer can be conception. This is from a Christian perspective.

Not to turn this into a religious argument, but you can’t apply logic to a story, and then claim it’s fact.

First you need to determine that that passage is in fact true before it can be used to conclude anything further.

Portions of the Bible have been proven true, and due to the nature of the book the rest we have to assume is either true or false (hence why religion is faith based). As a Christian, you would believe the Bible is fact, and therefore make logical arguments with it. And as she noted, this is from a Christian perspective. So there is nothing wrong with her statment. Those who don't believe the Bible is fact would of course disagree with the argument based on that fact.

We could devolve into a "is the Bible fact" debate, but that is not for here or now.

You are mistaking KNOWING something is true (i.e. I know God exists) for BELIEVING something is true (i.e. I believe God exists).  No one knows if God really exists, and it is sort of blasphemous to say you do. 

Furthermore, the stuff you are quoting in the Bible is not historical fact because it involves something supernatural.  Its part of the overarching Judeo-Christian story.  That doesn't mean it is fact.  For instance, its the difference between "Jesus was crucified" (historical fact) - "Jesus died so that God would forgive the human race's sins" (Judeo-Christian story).

Thus, pro-life people BELIEVE that life begins at conception.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Its sort of just a difference of opinion on what "life" really is.  Technically, life begins before conception.  An egg and a sperm are both alive.  There isn't a magical barrier between life and death that is passed.  That globule of chromosomes can now develop into a fully functional organism, but it is no more alive or dead than it was before the egg and sperm united.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson