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hsrob on 14 April 2009
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Nirvana_Nut85 said:
Onyxmeth said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

 

From what I know the baby will try and move away from the abortion tools at 12 weeks. I am researching further to see if there is evidence of this at earlier stages.

Now as for the mother issue. As terrible as it might sound, if a woman is raped, well, I think that she should go through with the pregnancy. That just my opinion and I know people will think that's terrible but yah. I mean I understand that she did not want ot become pregnant , but at the same time that baby didn't ask to be created either.

See now I understand how you called me out for the mother issue "which as I think about it more I agree that in those circumstances they should let nature take it's course" but I ask you the same question, are you not bieng hypocritical yourself? To say that your pro choice, but yet at certain stages in the baby's development you become pro life? So when does it go f4rom being a mother's choice to a baby's right to life?

I don't think you understand my stance and many others as being pro-choice. We have our own moral cutoffs where we do feel the baby is given rights to live. That is what makes us pro-choice. We don't have to be pro-choice for 9 months of pregnancy to be in the club. You however are being hypocritical by saying you are pro-life and then making compromises that do not benefit the unborn. Frankly, you and most people like you are not pro-life at all. You're merely pro-choicers that just have a different set of cutoffs than others do. As hsrob said earlier, most of you are more like a conservative bunch of pro-choicers.

 

No, if you read my last statement, I said "the more i think about it, the more I agree that nature should take it course. Also your just being as hypocritical as I am, because you state that I must be 100% for or else I'm not really pro life yet why does not the same logic apply to you?

 

 

This doesn't really make sense. Pro-life by definition should be an 'ALL' position. Pro-choice is an all position in that you believe it is always the right for the mother to choose, even if you don't agree with her reasons for seeking an abortion.

Very few people would say that abortion is NEVER OK, but if you believe in full right to life of the foetus then that would be your position.  If in any scenario you think abortion is acceptable, then that means you do not believe that the foetus has the same rights to life as the mother, if this is the case then you aren't really pro-life.  Once you give up the position of total right to life of the foetus from conception your argument loses it's grounding.  You are now saying the foetus doesn't have a total right to life but we want to determine when that point is according to our criteria.  Pro-choicers realise the hypocrisy in this position and acknowledge that if you don't believe in the total right to life of the foetus from conception then the mother is the person that should be allowed to make that decision.

Of course the mother doesn't have total control over this decision and in most countries now, the decision to abort after a certain point can be taken from the mother, usually based on viability of the foetus or perceived lack of necessity of an abortion according to medical professionals.  This is not different from the rights of parents to decide what is best for their children, but the right of the courts to intervene if they determine that the children's rights are being infringed upon. 

Finally regarding the issue of movement, i don't see how this is relevant.  Babies can start to move from about 15-16 weeks post conception, but so can many living things, including some plants.  Movement doesn't signify any significant change in the foetus.  Traditionally, the quickening or the period when foetal movement is first detectable by the mother was thought to signify the attainment of a soul but since it is known from EEG readings that the brain starts to function much earlier than this, at about 6-7 weeks, this can't really be considered a significant factor.