Rise of atheism: 100,000 Brits seek 'de-baptism'

[Final-Fan]

appolose said:

donathos said:

appolose said:

Final-Fan said:
A.  If you HAVE a worldview that involves your senses being accurate, and they TELL you something that contradicts another part of your worldview, then PART of your worldview is wrong.  I really, really don't see how you disagree with that.
[...]

A.  You can't have a worldview that says your senses are accurate; only one that says your judgements are accurate.

I don't think we're on the same page. The essential issue is that as we both agree sense data is evidence for any worldview (or rather, particular beliefs), this irrevocably means that sense data does not offer a means of establishing the correct worldview/beliefs, amidst equal options. In recognizing this, one should know that any chosen worldview/belief is, therefore, arbitrary (the opposite of a method of truth).

B.  I meant "why you have to" as in "the most practical choice" or "most likely to be correct choice". 

But we're not getting input that just supports "living, eating, breathing" (VGChartz, essentially).  All of our input, sense data, supports anything, because, as we've agreed, it says nothing for itself and our judgements on sense data are arbitrary.  In other words the input, sense data, indicates everything, whether it be the Matrix or the real world (and the real world can have several of it's own positions; the moon is made of cheese, for example).

@ Final-Fan:  If I may attempt to paraphrase appolose's point B, I believe he's saying that we are getting INPUT that we're in the Matrix, if we choose to interpret our INPUT in that way.

And that there's no reason not to interpret it that way (or at least, no more or less reason for interpreting our INPUT any given way).

(Is this a good approximation, appolose?)

Yes, that's a pretty good of way of putting it.

A.  wat.  Did you just say that we both agree on what we are disagreeing about? 

Seriously, though, "You can't have a worldview that says your senses are accurate; only one that says your judgements are accurate."  If this was all over that technicality ... okay ... deep breaths ...

Fine.  Your worldview includes THE JUDGEMENT that YOUR INTERPRETATION of your SENSE DATA is accurate in that cheese has such and such texture, color, etc. etc. and that rock has such and such totally different texture, color, etc.  It also includes THE POSITION that the moon is made of cheese and not rock and that you can reliably JUDGE the difference.  Now you go to the moon and receive SENSE DATA that what you believe to be your brain INTERPRETS as texture and color consistent with rock and not cheese IN YOUR JUDGEMENT.  This worldview has thus contradicted itself. 

I consider the above paragraph to be substantially the same, for the practical purposes of this discussion, as what I have said in several posts above.  Do you still have a problem with it? 

B.  Well, it's not "more likely to be the correct choice", as you've thrown out all basis for comparing it to, well, anything, which is necessary for something to be more or less "likely" (I think). 

But it is the "best choice", defined as the choice that has the least reliance on hypotheticals in addition to INPUT that has been received.  You may disagree with this definition of "best". 

And it is the most "practical" IMO, as it is the only choice that can possibly be acted on practically.  I don't actually see any way to consider empiricism not the most practical choice.  I would be interested in hearing you why you do.